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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#531
post #503
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like there never was a reasonable case for mandates then :)

For young people the risk of death goes from something like 0.1% to 0.01% with the vaccine (just aiming for order of magnitude risks), which isn't a big deal for an individual. However, when you are talking about populations of 10s of millions in low risk age ranges, it's 10,000's of preventable deaths! Even if you don't care about the deaths (it's their choice to die; whatever), note that for every death, there are…

    Why should we waste tax dollars on medicare and welfare for anti-vaxxers?
Then we should use this same argument against obesity, drug use and other dangerous activities as well, right?

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#532
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem field is slighty different: if your income is constrained and you are generally in good health you are going to choose a low premium plan with consequent higher deductible. When it's your turn to end up in hospital you get to pay up to the (substantial for you) out-of-pocket limit, even though you belong to the demographic that cannot afford it and Obamacare was sold to you as making healthcare affordable…

Adding up the premiums plus the out-or-pocket max for the plan options that had my providers on my exchange, the low premium option was the least expensive, despite its higher deductable. The low premium option is the least cost option if you don't use much healthcare, or if you use a lot; but there's a range somewhere in there where the higher premium plan may lower your total costs. Of course, if you're getting a p…

The problem is that incidence for individuals is 100 %, and someone who gets to pay the full yearly deductible is likely so sick that he can't work. Lovely. Not only do you get to pay the hospital, now you are missing a chunk of income, too, when you can least afford it!

An Obamacare Bronze plan is like the bank extending credit - they carry the umbrella after you when the sun is shining, but at the first drop of rain they disappear.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#533
post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a parent. It's not that I don't think some children should be vaccinated; some should. Overweight, diabetic, etc. We know where the risk is, and we know the vaccine reduces serious outcomes. It's recommending it across-the-board that I object to. Now if your argument is "what's the harm?, why not vaccinate everyone?" my answer would be we don't actually know what the harm might be to these kids later in life. No…

> It's recommending it across-the-board that I object to. Early on, the goal was to reach herd immunity while we still had vaccines that were fairly effective at reducing transmission against the variants we had had, before they mutated. But also, I don't know how familiar you are with gov't messaging. But the more widespread you make a message, the less nuanced you can make it. People at large don't take nuance very…

It does not need to be that nuanced. It's basically if you (think you might) have these X conditions, get vaccinated. You can give the detailed recommendations to doctors and other caregivers, and refer the public to them and the CDC website to check more in case they don't know.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#534
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, Pfizer is a terrible company. Pharmaceutical companies can rot in hell. But that doesn't change the fact that vaccines save lives. It's not that I am bending over backwards to defend Pharma. It's that people are bending over backwards to find shitty things in the silver linings of these companies, instead of just complaining about the thunderclouds themselves like the rest of us. Corporations are big. Companies…

>But that doesn't change the fact that vaccines save lives. Yeah, all fine and good when you have informed consent. I took my life in my own hands by not getting vaccinated for covid after I looked at the mortality age graph, and knew I was fit and healthy and didn't need to worry. Society at large, however, castigated me, threw me in the same box as a conspiracy theorist, denied me my rights. People acted goddamn st…

> I'm angry about this and I won't forgive and I won't forget.

Me neither. They attempted an unconstitutional mandate even after promising they wouldn't do it during the election.

I'll never forgive that or forget the social cruelty, scapegoating and illegal breach of limited governance.

I decided not to get the vaccine based on the data. Took me 2.5 years to finally get covid. It was 4 days of fever and feeling lame. I now have immunity based on the entire virus rather than a subunit of a protein that doesn't even exist anymore.

I also (rightly) assumed masks are not effective just observing the spread being very clearly seasonal. And that just being in open air would be far better than any mask could do. Completely disrupting normal life would cause far greater health consequences for general healthy people than covid itself. We ended up not saving the vulnerable and inflicting very real, unnecessary harm on the healthy - the worst of both worlds.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#535
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be clear by now that covid is never going away. No country managed to stop it, no matter how strict their policies were. Unless you plan to be a hermit for the rest of your life, expect to get covid every few years.

Or you could reasonably wear an N95 mask indoors. Hardly being a "hermit".

Several of my friends and coworkers do that. All of them have gotten covid. N95 masks reduce the risk of getting a respiratory disease, but they're nowhere close to foolproof.

A CDC study found that people who wore N95 masks were 83% less likely to get covid than people who wore no mask,[1] but that overstates their effectiveness. People who wear N95s tend to behave differently than people who don't wear masks. They get vaccinated more, avoid gatherings, and generally try to reduce their risk of infection in other ways. Also the timing of the study is important. It was conducted before more infectious variants such as omicron were around. And since it was conducted when California required masks indoors, only 5% of participants claimed no mask usage. So the study compared N95 people against the most hardcore anti-maskers, not the typical person who doesn't wear a mask these days.

It is for these reasons that I would bet that the real effectiveness of N95 masks is around 50%, not 83%. Useful, but not something that lets you go back to normal life risk-free.

1. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#536
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could reasonably wear an N95 mask indoors. Hardly being a "hermit".

Several of my friends and coworkers do that. All of them have gotten covid. N95 masks reduce the risk of getting a respiratory disease, but they're nowhere close to foolproof. A CDC study found that people who wore N95 masks were 83% less likely to get covid than people who wore no mask,[1] but that overstates their effectiveness. People who wear N95s tend to behave differently than people who don't wear masks. They…

I have been traveling a lot this past year (a dozen flights), vigilantly wearing an N95 mask while indoors, and I've yet to get sick. Meanwhile, my slightly less vigilant travel companion got Covid during one of our flights, possibly from removing her mask to take a drink of water. Was it luck? Maybe to some extent, but I'm much more confident in the effectiveness of a well-sealed N95 than I was a year ago, that's for sure.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#537

I'm very skeptical about their numbers. Some time in 2021 there was a story about COVID vaccines and heart issues here on HN. The comments filled up with people saying that ever since they'd got their shots they were experiencing new heart-related symptoms they'd never had previously like permanently racing heartbeats, palpitations/fluttering, inability to do exercise and more. Unfortunately I'm not sure how to re-fi…

I think the fact that it's much easier to get diagnosed with covid than to get diagnosed with vaccine illness is working against us here. You can test for covid pretty accurately and cheaply. Then, if someone starts having symptoms, we can say it is covid. There is unfortunately no PCR test for vaccine illness. So if you have symptoms of it it's hard to say that it's the vaccine because there is no unique indicator we can test for.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#538
post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's recommending it across-the-board that I object to. Early on, the goal was to reach herd immunity while we still had vaccines that were fairly effective at reducing transmission against the variants we had had, before they mutated. But also, I don't know how familiar you are with gov't messaging. But the more widespread you make a message, the less nuanced you can make it. People at large don't take nuance very…

It does not need to be that nuanced. It's basically if you (think you might) have these X conditions, get vaccinated. You can give the detailed recommendations to doctors and other caregivers, and refer the public to them and the CDC website to check more in case they don't know.

What are the conditions, please list all of them in a way that makes it easy for me to find?

What age groups does this affect?

I think I have condition Y so I should go get vaccinated, but I have conflicting information on that from multiple doctors. Should I get vaccinated?

Also, in the US people often take advertised medications to their doctors and ask if they should take it, rather than doctors recommending things to people.

Finally, there are large segments of the population that don't consult doctors for varying reasons.

You wanna try and make that message simpler?

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#539
post #338
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 5 reports of death following Covid-19 vaccination in VAERS for children 0.5-5, and ‘1.6 million US children ages 6 months-4 years have received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine’ as of 11-2-22. This is 3.125 deaths per million, and VAERS notoriously undercounts. There are 31 reports of death following Covid-19 vaccination for children 5-12, and ‘10.9 million US children ages 5-11 have received at least…

EDIT: I wasn't kidding when I said I can play numbers and statistics all day. When you say "VAERS notoriously undercounts", I think you're probably referring to the flu vaccine (where we would have historical data), but I don't think it's fair to say that would be true for the Covid vaccine. Specifically because at the onset of this new vaccine, people are much more likely to report that a death happened after a covi…

When I say VAERS notoriously undercounts, I’m referring to the literature on the subject. For example, the Harvard report Electronic Support for Public Health - Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (ESP:VAERS) https://digital.ahrq.gov/ahrq-funded-projects/electronic-sup...:

  Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. 
  Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, 
  less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events 
  are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

  Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported. Low 
  reporting rates preclude or slow the identification of “problem” drugs 
  and vaccines that endanger public health. New surveillance methods for 
  drug and vaccine adverse effects are needed. Barriers to reporting 
  include a lack of clinician awareness, uncertainty about when and what
  to report, as well as the burdens of reporting: reporting is not part 
  of clinicians’ usual workflow, takes time, and is duplicative.
See also ‘The reporting sensitivities of two passive surveillance systems for vaccine adverse events’ https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.85.12.... Regarding VAERS:

  Sensitivities ranged from 72% for poliomyelitis after 
  the oral poliovirus vaccine to less than 1% for rash 
  and thrombocytopenia after the MMR vaccine.
Regarding your speculation that deaths associated with the Covid-19 vaccines are probably reported at rates higher than that of other vaccines: I have a hard time believing that the report rate is higher than poliomyelitis after the oral poliovirus vaccine which is itself underreported.

And regarding the protestation that correlation does not imply causation, it’s not on me to prove that the treatment is harmful, and otherwise it’s safe and thus administered—-it’s on you to prove that it confers an all cause mortality benefit. I am aware of no evidence to suggest that such a benefit obtains in children, and suggest that this dearth of evidence explains the failure to approve the vaccines for children in many European countries.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did anyone say that?

No, but then we should see more Western countries with money problems having the same issues.

Where else in the West can you sway a country the size of Europe by funding maybe 20 influencers across the Legislative and the Executive Branches? President, VP, Speaker of the House, Senate Majority Leader, and maybe some key committee chairs and Cabinet members are really all you need. They are the playmakers. Add to that the amount of influence the US has with Western trading partners and we become a prime target for a lot more "donations" than other Western countries. Didn't Biden and Trump each spend $1B on their 2020 campaigns? Anywhere else spend that kind of money in the West?

TLDR It's a matter of degrees.

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