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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#321

Post by robomartin »

throwaway09223 wrote: post #139
thrwy_918 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obamacare, which was forced upon us and costs us $2,400 PER MONTH, did not cover it Can you expand on this please? I find it extremely hard to understand how an ACA-compliant health care plan could "not cover" a hospital stay for myocarditis. Unless you're on a high-deductible plan and the entire stay was less than your deductible?

A two week hospital stay is orders of magnitude more than $10k, so presumably the $10k representes the out of pocket portion of the care. I suspect the maximum annual out of pocket.

>A two week hospital stay is orders of magnitude more than $10k, so presumably the $10k representes the out of pocket portion of the care.

No, that's not the case at all. We had to negotiate with the hospital and settled for this amount. The ACA covered none of it or a very small portion. I don't remember the actual bill, my wife dealt with all of it (she is a doctor and knows how to discuss such things with hospitals).

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#322

Post by Fomite »

cableshaft wrote: post #110
NaturalPhallacy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions die every year for we are mortal and numerous. Thankfully, the world's population grew during the pandemic. 210,000 to 448,000 Americans die every year to preventable medical errors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventable_causes_of_death#An... This is more people than COVID kills in the same time period, but strangely there's no panic about that. No mandates. No significant steps from any authorities to d…

What would be the mandate for user error (which is what 'preventable medical errors' boils down to), beyond an ongoing attempt to improve procedures in hospitals which I'm sure they're already doing, especially since the US is very litigious and they often get sued for malpractice. Humans are messy, can't hold all knowledge about everything in their heads at all times, and error prone. Unless you replace them entirel…

There are a staggering number of mandates and regulations around preventable medical errors. One that has been absolutely defining is CMS not compensating for healthcare-associated infections.

Also, many hospitals view things like infection control or antimicrobial stewardship as cost centers, and they're not doing nearly as much as they can.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#323

Post by origin_path »

CadmiumYellow wrote: post #105
yonaguska wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could find it, but google is insistent on working against me here, but I remember reading from one of Pfizer's data dumps that children in the vaccinated group of their studies were at an increased risk of other respiratory infections compared to the control group. Anecdotally, some, not all, but some of my triple vaccinated friends are getting sick constantly and they've said that every time they catch covi…

Do you have any idea if this effect was found for the non-mRNA vaccines as well? I had the Johnson & Johnson vaccine with no boosters and I've been getting an unusual number of colds this year, though I assumed it was due to life returning to normal with a backlog of viruses I hadn't been exposed to in 2020-2021. I did get covid twice after being vaccinated though and both cases were very mild with the second being a…

Officially the increased sickness effect doesn't exist at all. We only have these sorts of anecdotes and vaccines can only be discussed occasionally on HN, and not at all on most other forums, so notes can only be compared rarely.

Unofficially the effect does exist and goes by various names: OAS, Hoskins Effect, immune imprinting. It can be seen in some of the vaccine effectiveness data back when it was being collected by places like the UK, where vaccinated people were getting COVID at 4x the rate of unvaccinated by the time they stopped reporting (and the rate was worsening with time).

It can also be seen in the boosters trial data where they had to switch the definition of success to antibody production, because the boosters were not actually reducing infection incidence e.g. the bivalent boosters were tested on all of 8 mice and all 8 got COVID when exposed so effectiveness is zero, but that didn't stop them being approved on the basis that they caused production of antibodies (to the variant targeted by the OG vaccine, not Omicron).

OAS unfortunately can be caused by any vaccine tech. It's not mRNA specific. The antibodies you produce are for the older extinct variants that the vaccine trained you for, not the current variants. The body doesn't recognize that there's a difference.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#324

Post by origin_path »

benevol wrote: post #314
sfusato wrote: post #7

Norway recommends booster doses for 65+ [0], Denmark for 50+ [1], Australia for 50+ [2], Sweeden for 65+ [3], Finland for 65+ [4]. United States recommends booster does for 5+ [5]. "The (Florida) State Surgeon General now recommends against the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines for males ages 18-39 years old." [6] [0] https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-p... [1] https://www.sst.dk/en/English/Corona-eng/Va…

Quoted post unavailable.

In fairness UK conservative media have been reporting on it (Spectator, Telegraph). But it's being blamed on lockdowns and NHS collapse. That might be true; not all countries have excess deaths and it's a bit unclear to what extent the effect is real. It depends a lot on how you model the baseline.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#325

Post by robomartin »

toast0 wrote: post #78
robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

> did not cover it As in you paid the whole cost, and it was $10K, and it didn't count on your deductables / out of pocket max? Or the patient paid portion was $10K, the insurance paid portion was $0, but now you're a lot closer to your maximums? Did you file with the CICP? https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp

> Did you file with the CICP? https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp

Yes, we did. It's worse than dealing with the DMV. I don't know where we are in the process other than my wife (she is a doctor) telling me not to hold my breath.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#326

Post by scop »

phtrivier wrote: post #311

Just so we now for next time: what is the proper way to express concerns about _this_ kind of things with enough nuance and moderation so as not to be automatically considered an anti-scientist tin foil hat ? What is the scientifically acceptable way to phrase "I'm not concerned about BigPharma planting 5G chips in my future children's eyeballs to turn them into communist ; but I'm very concerned about blind spots du…

Eric Weinstein had a great segment on his Portal podcast about this very thing. I can't recall the interview (maybe with Balaji?), but if it comes to me I'll comment it. The gist was that he was talking about Covid and he observed that the guest had to spend an inordinate amount of time saying what he was not saying, to the point of being absurd. He had to constantly preface his comments with a long series of statements of disassociation. "Now I'm not saying X, or Y, and I'm definitely not a P, and I don't agree with everything Z said but..." How can you have a conversation if so much time is spent not saying things?

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#327

Post by _ea1k »

no_butterscotch wrote: post #124
robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

> We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. I'm curious about this. In my world COVID is over now. I live in San Francisco. Nobody I know is getting boosters or is worried about it anymore. Where do you live and what are the circumstances like there that you're considering getting your "next" one? (you've been boosted before?).

TBH, I tend to agree. Vaccines are readily available and most of us have been exposed to COVID at some point. By this point, there is little reason for behavior modification.

The boosters likely make sense for some people, but there's little real data on their effectiveness. Outside of the more vulnerable, I'd avoid them personally. The proof just isn't readily available of continuous boosters being worth it to me.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#328

Post by dempseye »

hitpointdrew wrote: post #4

Seems like this should have been a requirement before any emergency use authorization, and certainly before any mandates. The fact that this research is just now being done ought to be enough to immediately revoke the FDA emergency use authorizations and pull the product from the shelves. The covid vaccines have been a complete and utter disaster at every level. The erosion of trust in the institutions that are suppo…

The erosion of trust is actually a good thing, because those institutions are undeserving of trust.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#329

Post by fluoridation »

ivraatiems wrote: post #213
linuxftw wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, people losing their jobs for not taking an experimental medical product was just a persuasion game? What?

Yes, "do this or you're fired" is a coercive tactic. People who are pro-vaccine want everyone to get the vaccine. They believe it is a matter of life or death (frankly, I agree with them, but I am trying to present this neutrally). So that level of coercion, "fear losing your job if you don't do this" is exactly what I'm talking about. If people could be persuaded to do things that are in their interest via rational…

>If people could be persuaded to do things that are in their interest via rational discourse, and evidence favored vaccines, it wouldn't be necessary to do that kind of coercion.

Interesting. Of course, in this particular case that coercion happens to coincide with a position you agree with, but not in every instance that apparently justifiable coercion will agree with you. I assume, for the sake of consistency, you'll defend them in that case too.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#330

Post by robomartin »

no_butterscotch wrote: post #124
robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

> We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. I'm curious about this. In my world COVID is over now. I live in San Francisco. Nobody I know is getting boosters or is worried about it anymore. Where do you live and what are the circumstances like there that you're considering getting your "next" one? (you've been boosted before?).

> Where do you live and what are the circumstances like there that you're considering getting your "next" one? (you've been boosted before?).

Los Angeles.

I know lots of vaccinated people who are getting infected. Just last week I went to a conference here in LA. I was going to meet-up this week with on of the people I saw there. He told me he got COVID at the conference.

Yes, I've had one booster. I travel a lot for business. I think it might be prudent to take further precautions. I have no reason to believe this is unsafe for me.

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