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Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

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Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#401

Post by Tao3300 »

MrDunham wrote: post #282

So, I have some inside knowledge on this one. There were many people who were axed as part of the layoffs days after start. But these layoffs were planned for months. The thinking was either 1) we can rescind job offers and give them nothing or 2) at least give a severance package to people who expected employment. Now, I'm not excusing that there are cases like this that fall through the cracks. It really really suc…

There are way more options than the two you listed. The trouble is that you're using bureaucratic thinking about how to handle all the cases instead of getting down to the human, personal level of how you handle each specific case.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#402

Post by HWR_14 »

pcf wrote: post #284
mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

Just two things: 1) Remember that a lot of tech people score higher on the autistic spectrum than normal people do. So most likely many of the commentators just don't have the biological wiring for feeling empathy like many others do. This might ease your mind a little. 2) Also remember that Musk would probably have given someone those three months to find other employment, seeing as he gave Twitter employees up to s…

> autistic spectrum than normal people do. So most likely many of the commentators just don't have the biological wiring for feeling empathy like many others do

This is outdated. Assuming you are using "empathy" conversationally, it's driven by the fact that people higher on the autistic spectrum don't perceive what other people feel very well, and historically this was misinterpreted. The comments on HN aren't "I don't understand why anyone would be upset". They are "it's only business". Those who claim that they are autistic so they can be assholes are just assholes who are happy to lie to try to justify it socially.

Or, people with autism have a correlation to issues with cognitive empathy (recognizing what another person's mental state), but not affective empathy (the desire to respond to the other person's mental state.)[1]

> Musk would probably have given someone those three months to find other employment, seeing as he gave Twitter employees up to six months.

Has it changed again? Last I saw was 3 months. At any rate, he started and continues to try to get people to quit by a lot of policy changes. And has a history of burning out his employees in fairly harsh ways.

You can say he's effective, but he doesn't sound pleasant to work for.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-017-0082-6

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#403

Post by coldtea »

notacoward wrote: post #376
coldtea wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. I think the best time to remind those kind of people of this, is when they get fucked over themselves at some point. Kind of telling them "Just shut up and cope doesn't feel so good when shit happens to you…

> I think the best time to remind those kind of people of this, is when they get fucked over themselves at some point. Alternative POV: that's the worst time. At those moments, the person is unlikely to be very receptive. They'll see it as proof that you are a bitter, vengeful person not worth listening to. Yes, that would a bit hypocritical of them, but that's humanity for you. That hardens people, leading to exactl…

Yeah, after the fact might work too. But the fact being painful and an experienced of how bad how they treat others is, I've also seen help, in a "Damn, have I've been such a jerk to others all along?" way.

Else many will often brush it off and reboot the "jerk" act when they've recovered.

Especially if they feel entitled to the help and compassion shown to them when they're down, and it helps them recover faster and scratch free (and thus makes the falling down less impactful). In that case they end up still not valuing said help and compassion (because for them it was on full and easy supply).

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#404

Post by gw98 »

coinbasetwwa wrote: post #307
gw98 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked in tech for 25 years it doesn’t surprise me. Some people I’ve worked with are barely human. A colleague a few years ago went as far as to suggest that this is how you ended up with nazis. I hope with ubiquitous communications now that we tell these people that no it’s not acceptable to behave like this! Compassion should be awarded.

“Barely human”.. that’s a pretty nazi-esque way of looking at others. Perhaps people simply have different opinions and priorities.

I understand that there are different opinions and priorities but consider that a lot of people to be entirely lacking in any virtue and compassion restricted only by the power that they do not (currently) possess.

To empower those folk is how you end up with nazis, which is the point.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#405

Post by Tao3300 »

yreg wrote: post #140
alkonaut wrote: post #76

Layoffs are a fact of life in running a business. Treating people poorly is a choice.

Do we have a reason to believe he was treated poorly?

Okay, it's back to basics, I guess...

How would you feel if someone did this to you?

1. :-)

2. :-|

3. :-(

How do you think someone else would feel if you did this to them?

1. :-)

2. :-|

3. :-(

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#406

Post by aaomidi »

mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

Budding elons is the best description of the majority of HN opinions when it comes to people.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#407

Post by Tao3300 »

bawolff wrote: post #32
jonathanhd wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger issue is that he is likely now without a work visa and has to scramble to avoid deportation.

I dont think that's true in canada. IANAL but i was under the impression that if you are fired you are still allowed to stay until your work permit expires. Its only usa that has the problem you describe.

Canada, so IANAB

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#408

Post by Tao3300 »

Aeolun wrote: post #273
ramtatatam wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that, I don't work for Meta. Would be nice if you can share source to back your claim, if Meta is paying whole package to somebody who only worked for 2 days then that would be entirely different story for that guy.

You can skimp on the extras, but you cannot skimp on the basics. It’s their fault for hiring him after all. Not his fault for coming to the US and trusting them.

Canada is not the US

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#409

Post by badwolf »

unethical_ban wrote: post #303
hnbad wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even simpler: make 3 months notice mandatory across the board. Or heck, even 30 days notice would be a start. Of course there's no way you can rely on a corporation to do this voluntarily and regulation is unlikely given who pays the bills. I wish there was a way to make this happen but I keep hearing software workers don't need unions because we already make so much money and the better ones have nothing to wor…

3 months notice, while retaining access to company networks and campus? I support "keeping them on the books" for purposes of visa and health insurance, for example, but there are legitimate security reasons to have people cut off quickly when they've been laid off or fired.

A company can give them 3 months "paid time off" while also revoking their access to tools/systems,.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#410

Post by HWR_14 »

notacoward wrote: post #376
coldtea wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. I think the best time to remind those kind of people of this, is when they get fucked over themselves at some point. Kind of telling them "Just shut up and cope doesn't feel so good when shit happens to you…

> I think the best time to remind those kind of people of this, is when they get fucked over themselves at some point. Alternative POV: that's the worst time. At those moments, the person is unlikely to be very receptive. They'll see it as proof that you are a bitter, vengeful person not worth listening to. Yes, that would a bit hypocritical of them, but that's humanity for you. That hardens people, leading to exactl…

Unless it is explicitly pointed out to them before help is given to them that it is help, they usually refuse to recognize it after the fact. I'm not saying that you shouldn't help. But I've seen a lot of people get helped and then immediately deny anyone ever did.

Feel free after to make the point that normally such help should be given cheerfully, or different types of help they can pay forward.

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