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Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

businessinsider.com

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Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#121

Post by mrtksn »

mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

IMHO, the libertarian trends of thought are pushing people to think everyone as a trader and abolishment of professions. From that perspective, business is business and the employee should have striken a better deal but from a professionals perspective they are not businessmen - they are professionals and the business is handled by someone else and they join a team where they get compensated for their time(they don't expect to get rich in the job, they expect to have stable career until retirement).

When the distinction is not clear, professionals are essentially getting ripped off. If it was clear that everyone is a trader and some trade their coding time, then Meta wouldn't be able to do this because the trader would have put the cancellation terms in the deal. If it was clear that they are professionals and don't with FB but join that company, then it is expected that the law should protect the workers.

It's the worst when you ara positioned as a single person trader who doesn't want to be a trader, doesn't have the skills of a trader and trades with a giant trader.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#122

Post by athrow »

mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

> This persons visa is dependent on their employment so now they get to go into a city they don't know and try desperately to find employment with an employer who is interested in sponsoring someone from abroad (which is a small fraction of the total employers).

Alternatively they can just return to India? I'd be surprised if they didn't receive reallocation package (16k USD according to teamblind?). I don't expect any employer to go above and beyond their contractual obligations.

There is also certain irony here in Meta employees expecting ethical behavior from Meta whilst happily creating and maintaining unethical outcomes for the customers.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#123

Post by MertsA »

slaw wrote: post #31
jbverschoor wrote: post #2

So he gets 4 months of pay, his signing bonus, and all if his shares vest immediately.

One person I know in Seattle worked for 2 months before layoff day and didn't get severance package. Probably 90 days is minimum working time.

I know of people still in bootcamp that got the same severance package as everyone else. There was no minimum working time.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#124

Post by blitzar »

mastermedo wrote: post #67
hooby wrote: post #58

Imho the real question here is, why is it that Meta keeps hiring right right until they do large layoff rounds? The kind of issue that requires large layoff rounds is not something that just materializes overnight, out of the blue. So why does their management - which should be able to read the writing on the wall, since that's part of their job - not issue a strict hiring freeze (in addition to other measures taken…

It’s like that scene from the Margin Call. All is well, until you notice the calculations you did before make no sense.

checking formulas on spreadsheet - hmm it looks like I typed over the "total cost" number - which explains why it didnt change when I added more staff

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#125

Post by kypro »

mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

I do agree, but I guess I'm not sure what the solution is here?

Large layoffs in large orgs are generally done at a team level rather than an individual level. So presumably this individual's entire team no longer exists.

So out of respect for them relocating do you then try to reposition them in the company somehow?

And what about all the people who didn't relocate but may have recently left stable job for an opportunity at Meta? Do they not matter or should they also be repositioned out of respect? And what about those who have personal reasons that make the layoff extra difficult? For example, those who might have just had a new born or who have family members in hospital? Do their personal situations not also matter?

And for how long would these individuals be safe if you do make an exception? Do you keep them for 3 months just to be nice then proceed with the layoff anyway? I'm not sure that's much better...

I think maybe the best thing to do here is just to give good severance packages?

I don't think I'm being heartless. I'm sat here thinking both, "man this is awful" while also having no idea what the right answer is. You can argue layoffs suck more for certain people and those people should be protected, but for a larger org needing to do mass-layoffs it seems almost impossible to make those kinds of assessments on an individual level in a way that is fair. You'd inevitably just end up protecting certain types of crappy situations (recently located) over other types of crappy situations (family member just died).

Just thinking out loud... Maybe I'm missing something here.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#126

Post by haspok »

I read a story on my LinkedIn feed about a lady who had it worse: she relocated to the US with her family a couple months ago on an L1 visa, before being fired from Meta. Because of this, she now has a few months to pack her belongings, because obviously the L1 is non-transferable, and even if she applies and wins on the H1-B lottery and finds a sponsor the earliest she could start working again is fall of next year. There is nothing she can do about it. Life is really unfair sometimes.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#127

Post by jbverschoor »

djmips wrote: post #72
jbverschoor wrote: post #2

So he gets 4 months of pay, his signing bonus, and all if his shares vest immediately.

It's still not worth it.

I'm not sure what Amazon was paying him in India as a SDE-2, but the range is somewhere between $35k and $50k

So he probably got around 1.5 years of his previous yearly comp.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#128

Post by mytailorisrich »

arrrg wrote: post #120
mytailorisrich wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We understand the predicament and feel for this guy, but so what? This sort of thing happens and there is nothing wrong with a company doing that. There is no need to be overly dramatic or immature. We can just hope that the company will provide a good level of support and that the person will be able to get back on their feet ASAP.

Why do you think there is nothing wrong with a company doing that? Ethically? Legally?

Why should there be anything 'wrong' with laying off someone who has just joined, whether they've relocated or not? When companies decide on large re-orgs, whole teams, departments, business unit can go. That's just the way it is.

Relocating is no protection against being laid off, be it legally or ethically.

Companies can show empathy and that they care by providing support, as said.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#129

Post by kitsune_ »

largepeepee wrote: post #97
bluepizza wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't have to inevitable, though. They literally have all the data.

That's the problem with just reading data reports at scale. Hiring 30k people so recently then firing almost half of them the next year, even filtering a tiny quarter of a percent is going to create outliers who get affected with serious life changing events.

It's really more about whether the decision makers at that level care about this kind of stuff or not.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#130

Post by vintagedave »

mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

> so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency

Reading them, so am I. There is no sign of empathy: that understanding of another individual, the ability to put oneself in someone else's shoes, that is fundamental to a healthy society and (IMO) personal integrity.

I read a comment a few years ago that no-one thinks of themselves as a bad person. To yourself, you are always okay. Yet lacking as you phrase it 'human decency', or for me, 'empathy', as so clearly illustrated in those harsh, inhuman, uncaring, comments that show no concern nor understanding of the person, the human, the feeling caring uprooted emotion-bearing trouble-striving human at the center of this...

I don't know. I feel like quite a few people in this post need to question themselves.

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