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Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

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Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#221
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a few countries and territories did not use the lockdown strategy at all: including Japan, Belarus, Sweden, South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tanzania, two states in Brazil and certain United States states. Are you sure Taiwan, South Korea and Hong Kong fit on that list?

Yes, as someone in Taiwan, the borders were closed and needed quarantine, but there was never local lockdowns where massive areas were required to stay home.

Some regions closed schools for a while, i wouldn't call that not following lockdown strategy.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#222
post #132

Also, Apple: Chinese workers flee Covid lockdown at iPhone factory https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63447755 . Elsewhere in India, Apple is up its game. India's Tata to add Up to 45,000 woman workers at iPhone parts plant to deal with the shortage of parts created by zero lockdown policy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-01/india-s-t... . More and more stuff is moving to other parts of Asia. So…

Lockdowns certainly can stop geometric rise of an infection and it can make sense if you don't want to have people who might have been saved dying in hospital corridors due to lack of capacity but IMHO it doesn't make any sense whatsoever as a long term solution if the lockdown is not globally coordinated to eradicate the microbe at once. If the lockdown is not global, it will keep coming back. That's why I wonder wh…

> I wonder what China is trying to achieve here.

From reading scientific papers about the occurrence of complications in people who've had Covid twice, it looks like the virus inflicts long-lasting damage to the body, even if it isn't readily apparent.

People how have Covid twice have a higher rate of complication the second time around (including post-Covid syndrome a.k.a. long covid). There are no reasons to think that people in places where "living with Covid" is a thing really are rotting with it. Vaccines do little to protect against this.

In Europe, the cumulative incidence of confirmed infections is nearing 50% of the population (and ~30% in the US). In China, that number is less than 1%.

Major caveat regarding the reasoning above, the studies were carried before omicron emerged. These variants have fewer complications, not sure how this will compound.

It is possible that the drop in productivity in the US that's been reported this week (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33405389) is in part driven by lower mental acuity or immune system performance. The decline may not be large enough to be noticeable on a day to day basis, yet show up in aggregate measurements.

Xi may be playing the long game here. If the above holds, even if Covid ends up endemic in China after a while, its workers would have an edge on the rest of the world.

————

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-1749502/v1 (it's only a preprint, but third party experts vouch for it: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/05/health/covid-reinfection-...)

I've read an earlier paper on the topic, but I can't find it right now.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#223
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lockdown may be a temporary solution. The long-term solution is to maintain better hygiene (masks, washing hands) and get the vaccine without turning into political drama all over Twitter. Outside of China, how many countries continued a lockdown solution after vaccines became widely available (in that country)? Some countries at least pursued split lockdowns where vaccinated people were completely free.

Which was controversial in my country from the onset, and which has recently become even more controversial when it was revealed that Pfizer didn't actually test for transmission prevention in their product. Not trying to shoehorn this discussion into politics, but the movement pushing back against lockdowns and forced/semi-forced vaccination isn't composed entirely out of anti-vaxxers or conspiracy nuts.

> and which has recently become even more controversial when it was revealed that Pfizer didn't actually test for transmission prevention in their product.

Now imagine how frustrated I've been for nearly two years on this: I knew this in Dec 2020. Pfizer never lied here, and we knew for a month or two after the vaccines were announced that this was the case. The lie came from media and politicians months after the vaccine was announced.

For example, before it was memory-holed:

https://www.washington.edu/news/2020/12/02/covid-19-vaccines...

https://www.businessinsider.com/who-says-no-evidence-coronav...

https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/12/covid-...

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#224

Also, Apple: Chinese workers flee Covid lockdown at iPhone factory https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63447755 . Elsewhere in India, Apple is up its game. India's Tata to add Up to 45,000 woman workers at iPhone parts plant to deal with the shortage of parts created by zero lockdown policy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-01/india-s-t... . More and more stuff is moving to other parts of Asia. So…

> washing hands Can we please drop this from COVID discussions? COVID isn’t spread by touch. That was apparent early on, but a lot of energy and resources were still diverted from “things that work” to a cleaning fetish.

"I hope future generations of Earth have fewer troubles dealing with deadly pandemics."

Their post wasn't only about covid.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#225
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lockdowns certainly can stop geometric rise of an infection and it can make sense if you don't want to have people who might have been saved dying in hospital corridors due to lack of capacity but IMHO it doesn't make any sense whatsoever as a long term solution if the lockdown is not globally coordinated to eradicate the microbe at once. If the lockdown is not global, it will keep coming back. That's why I wonder wh…

A couple of reasons. First, the strict measures were popular and people demanded them. It's been a while since I've spoken with people in China so I'm not sure how much this is still the case, but it was definitely true up to last year. Second, the measures allowed most people to move relatively freely and go to discos when we still had blanket lockdowns in the west. The idea was to crackdown hard and quickly create…

“Third, COVID is special as it is one of the few airborne / aerosol-transmitted diseases that you have a good chanche of suppressing.”

The fatal flaw of this reasoning is that it lies dormant in animals.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#226
post #132

Also, Apple: Chinese workers flee Covid lockdown at iPhone factory https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63447755 . Elsewhere in India, Apple is up its game. India's Tata to add Up to 45,000 woman workers at iPhone parts plant to deal with the shortage of parts created by zero lockdown policy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-01/india-s-t... . More and more stuff is moving to other parts of Asia. So…

Lockdowns certainly can stop geometric rise of an infection and it can make sense if you don't want to have people who might have been saved dying in hospital corridors due to lack of capacity but IMHO it doesn't make any sense whatsoever as a long term solution if the lockdown is not globally coordinated to eradicate the microbe at once. If the lockdown is not global, it will keep coming back. That's why I wonder wh…

Lockdowns didn't really do much in europe. Like washing hands it feels more like a placebo treatment to make people feel like the gvt is doing something useful.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#227

Also, Apple: Chinese workers flee Covid lockdown at iPhone factory https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63447755 . Elsewhere in India, Apple is up its game. India's Tata to add Up to 45,000 woman workers at iPhone parts plant to deal with the shortage of parts created by zero lockdown policy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-01/india-s-t... . More and more stuff is moving to other parts of Asia. So…

> washing hands Can we please drop this from COVID discussions? COVID isn’t spread by touch. That was apparent early on, but a lot of energy and resources were still diverted from “things that work” to a cleaning fetish.

> COVID isn’t spread by touch.

COVID's primary means of infection certainly isn't touch, but that doesn't preclude getting the droplets on your hands and introducing them by touching your face.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According research (just google is and look at the actual papers and the data set in them and how it was calculated), with the exception of properly worn high grade medical PPE, neither does masking. Universal masking is little more than pointless hysterical hype. Flimsy reused surgical masks, bandanas and home made cloth masks only look f-good in mathematical projections, never in the actual real world results. No I…

This again? The masks are to prevent _you_ from spewing infections agents all over the place. The masks are not to protect you. The masks are intended to protect other people from you.

I could believe this if it was mostly spread by coughing and sneezing and other such large droplets, but we knew by mid/late-2020 that this virus was almost entirely aerosol spread - something cloth masks don't stop at all.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#229
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. Weird, it's definitely moved the overton window a ton where I am and I'm glad of it. It's totally normal and nobody cares one way or the other as far as I've noticed. It's nice to be able to mask up without any feeling of stigma about it. Masking up just sort of seems like the altruistic move on public transit and the like, this was true before covid, esp during flu season, and I always felt a little embarrassed…

It takes a special kind of person to cover half their face with a dirty mask and make it harder for themselves to breathe just so they don’t catch a cold.

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