Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move • Hacker News Board

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#341

Post by indymike » Tue, Nov 01, 2022, 1:29 PM UTC

JohnBooty wrote: post #136

TulliusCicero wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really interesting. The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. What the existence of video games does, is allow people to do things like this in an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It's like a psychologica…

One reason you typically don't see really hacky/exploitative stuff in competitive sports is that... these sports are decades or even 100+ years old. Tens of thousands of games have been played by extremely talented and competitive individuals. Thousands of exploits have been tried and written into the rulebooks. For example, the "Sean Avery" rule in hockey. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Avery#The_Avery_Rule That…

Leveraging loopholes in the rules, using the clock and gambits where you bet on the refs officials missing a call are as old as the game in most sports. Every year, there are new rules added to the books to cover all the edge cases that were discovered during the last season.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#342

Post by volleygman180 » Tue, Nov 01, 2022, 1:29 PM UTC

Just wait until military soldiers start camping inside the corner of a room, or jumping and prancing as they come around a corner while in battle.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#343

Post by birracerveza » Tue, Nov 01, 2022, 1:48 PM UTC

thereddaikon wrote: post #330

notThrowingAway wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I wouldn't give to see a Redline-style race in real life

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean super un safe cross country races? Its called rallying. Do you mean impractically long drag races where lol turns out I wasn't flooring it and now I'm really flooring it? That aspect of redline doesn't make any sense. Or maybe just the competitors build their own cars and anything goes? I could get behind that. Racing seemed more pure back when it was dudes who built th…

Well, it's still that. But now the dudes have a crapton of money.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#344

Post by jaywalk » Tue, Nov 01, 2022, 1:51 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #307

discardedrefuse wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. Clock management is a pretty big aspect of (American) football strategy and very much expected. I don't think anyone considers it gaming the rules. Just off the top of my head: - Teams with comfortable lead…

> I don't think anyone considers it gaming the rules. Explicit clock management is part of the game. But if you start messing around when the other team has ended pursuit, you are definitely breaking an "unwritten rule" (of which there are many in sports).

A good example of this is when defenders try to "blow up" a victory formation. It's perfectly legal, but generally considered bad sportsmanship.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#345

Post by orbital-decay » Tue, Nov 01, 2022, 1:51 PM UTC

Crazy. It used to work in many old games; it was a routine trick in Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed. But it was a game physics quirk that propelled you forward with much more power than your engine was capable of.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#346

Post by wiredfool » Tue, Nov 01, 2022, 1:52 PM UTC

BadOakOx wrote: post #266

daguava wrote: post #81

This is one of those events that I'm of several minds about: 1) This is what keeps people outside the scene interested and taking note - NASCAR absolutely should publicize and play up this moment, it brings a lot of folks to the sport. It was incredibly awesome. 2) A lot of times something like this is how you form some new regulations - it's truly one of those "You know, this was excellent but we can't do it again"…

> 2) A lot of times something like this is how you form some new regulations - it's truly one of those "You know, this was excellent but we can't do it again" situations. I don't watch Nascar, but as from comments from other places, there is nothing new with it. It has been known and attempted by others now and then [1]. It is a high risk high reward move and this time it turned out good. If it wasn't regulated so fa…

There was the 3" fuel line issue a decade or more ago.

When limiting the size of the fuel cell to x gallons, they neglected to specify the size of the fuel line. More fuel capacity is an advantage late in the race, allowing for the potential to not have to pit for a splash of gas or have to drive as conservatively.

Well, a 3" line has a couple of gallon capacity if it extends the length of the car, and at one point, someone won because of it, and then had it discovered in the technical inspection.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#347

Post by banannaise » Tue, Nov 01, 2022, 1:53 PM UTC

dkarl wrote: post #333

jdminhbg wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s the social expectations that are at play here. Instead, it’s that without video game football, the odds of a player ever being in this situation are minuscule — so minuscule that we’re currently commenting on an article written about one time that it happened twelve years ago — and so the correct strategy won’t be something that pops into your head when sprinting for the end zone. But if you play h…

The penalty for making a mistake is extremely high, too. There are many examples of players easing up as they near the goal line because they think they're in the clear, and then getting hit or stripped at the last second, incurring eternal embarrassment or shame. You not only need to be in a very specific game situation, you also need to be extremely certain that none of the eleven opposing players are going to get…

You can see him looking over his shoulder repeatedly, almost panicked, during his run because he's so worried about this actually happening. He had to make himself really sure this wouldn't happen.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#348

Post by Shocka1 » Tue, Nov 01, 2022, 1:56 PM UTC

BadOakOx wrote: post #266

daguava wrote: post #81

This is one of those events that I'm of several minds about: 1) This is what keeps people outside the scene interested and taking note - NASCAR absolutely should publicize and play up this moment, it brings a lot of folks to the sport. It was incredibly awesome. 2) A lot of times something like this is how you form some new regulations - it's truly one of those "You know, this was excellent but we can't do it again"…

> 2) A lot of times something like this is how you form some new regulations - it's truly one of those "You know, this was excellent but we can't do it again" situations. I don't watch Nascar, but as from comments from other places, there is nothing new with it. It has been known and attempted by others now and then [1]. It is a high risk high reward move and this time it turned out good. If it wasn't regulated so fa…

I have some family members that are huge fans, so I follow somewhat. It should be noted with your link that Darlington is a much faster and lengthier track than Martinsville. At Darlington, Larson was very close to Hamlin when he initiated the wall ride halfway through the corner - he may have gained a half second or so, not several, like at Martinsville. I see this as more of a Richmond/Martinsville short track strategy. So now that we know it's possible at Martinsville, it'll be great to see what happens next time they visit or on the next short track race.

I personally don't see this happening a lot. I raced motorcycles at the professional level for several years. If someone had continued doing something that gave them a 3 to 5 second advantage on the last lap, the rest of the paddock would have gotten tired of it pretty quickly. Although I think it's a hilarious situation, I would imagine if it continues to happen that the drivers doing it will start to feel pressure from the other drivers.

If it gets to where this is happening all the time, I don't see the series not making a rule against it, but they are probably gladly accepting the needed publicity at this point.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#349

Post by jaywalk » Tue, Nov 01, 2022, 1:58 PM UTC

zeckalpha wrote: post #331

JohnBooty wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the Wired writer is a football person either. I can probably best explain it this way: that play does not have a name, because it's pretty basic and that guy didn't invent it. Clock management is so integral to gridiron football. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_out_the_clock#American... You probably see that move a little bit more in video games. In real life there's more that can go wrong; you hav…

First down lines were súper imposed before video games could do that. It just was the classic yellow straight line.

I mean, video games could do it of course. But the idea definitely started with TV.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#350

Post by banannaise » Tue, Nov 01, 2022, 1:59 PM UTC

discardedrefuse wrote: post #104

TulliusCicero wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really interesting. The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. What the existence of video games does, is allow people to do things like this in an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It's like a psychologica…

> The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. Clock management is a pretty big aspect of (American) football strategy and very much expected. I don't think anyone considers it gaming the rules. Just off the top of my head: - Teams with comfortable lead…

Fun fact, two of those five things are known to be counterproductive, but coaches still do them, presumably due to social expectation and/or job security.

Conservative play calling with a lead, particularly on defense, is known to reduce your chances of holding the lead. Sticking to more balanced tactics leads to losses that look more spectacular, but fewer of them.

And depending on how you look at the stats, the "icing the kicker" timeout either doesn't really work, or only works if done before the offense is set, which is not when most coaches call it.