Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

courtlistener.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 263 posts

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#221

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

2bitencryption wrote: post #44

Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…

> In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance?

Not amazing at all. It’s a fairly standard performance which is why it’s very dubious he cheated OTB. The chess.com report has to stretch the truth considerably to try to imply there is something fishy OTB. Magnus was just playing aggressively to score against a weaker opponent and had a bad day.

His performance ramp up is not particularly impressive. He played less tournaments that people his age four years ago and his rating went up towards competitive GM level when he started seriously playing. That’s a typical trajectory for a young pro-player. To be clear, we are not talking about a Fischer-like, world champion contender path here.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#223

Post by carl_dr »

mannykannot wrote: post #169
iLoveOncall wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He already did so, in the match that he won against Carlsen. The measures in all those tournaments are extremely stringent.

Clearly some people whose opinions matter do not regard those measures as stringent enough to settle the issue.

This is a video of Hans being checked before round 4 of the Sinquefield cup.

https://www.chessdom.com/hans-niemann-was-thoroughly-checked...

I don't know what else they could have done other than full body x-ray him. Make your own mind up whether these checks are stringent.

In addition, there was a 15 minute broadcast delay.

His record in that tournament for rounds 4 though 9 was loss, draw, draw, win, draw. Hans was the lowest rated player in the tournament by 57 points.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#224

Post by carl_dr »

eimrine wrote: post #220
iLoveOncall wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any idea of what is in place to prevent cheating in those competitions? The only possible improvement would be for the players to be naked. This is just an easy excuse. "He cheated!" "There are anticheat measures" "They're not good enough" It's a cycle that can never be solved. The loser can always claim the anticheat measures were "not enough". You know what. I think Carlsen has cheated in every single o…

> The only possible improvement would be for the players to be naked. Something might be placed inside the organism. > I think Carlsen has cheated in every single one of his games. Prove the contrary. That's easy. He streamed a lot of games with the tightest time requirements happening in the discipline, kind of 3 minutes per player plus extra 1 second per move. The speed of that game is so high that there is simply…

> Something might be placed inside the organism

https://www.chessdom.com/hans-niemann-was-thoroughly-checked...

Seems unlikely ...

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#225

Post by addicted »

2bitencryption wrote: post #44

Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…

There was nothing particularly amazing. His rise is not extraordinary. The only part that is slightly unusual is that it came towards his mid to late teens, whereas such a rise is commonly seen in the early teens. However, even that can very easily be explained by the pandemic, where he used that time to dedicate himself to chess (which is something no one is questioning).

Further, in the particular game he beat Magnus in, he did not play an extraordinary game or anything. He simply did not make any major mistakes. Whereas Magnus did. If imagine the majority of GMs playing in Hans’s position would have won that game.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#226

Post by addicted »

pretendscholar wrote: post #205
sillysaurusx wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. Though I wouldn’t have done any better at 19. Teens aren’t known for eloquence or having the proper amount of confidence.

Please listen to Duda,Keymer, Ali reza do post game analysis. They can speak very well about their ideas. It is not normal to be a 2700 and be unable to give your thoughts on the game you just played.

Yeah, because being a GM is a completely normal thing in the first place.

Bobby Fischer was one of the top chess players of all time and was a certifiably insane nut job. There’s nothing normal about being a GM in the first place.

Niemann literally just won the biggest game of his life. He did something none of Duda, Alireza, etc have achieved. His situation was not normal. Trying to judge his actions based on whether it’s what Duda, etc would have done themselves in a situation they’ve never found themselves despite having had many opportunities to do so is silly.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#227

Post by tromp »

miamibre wrote: post #145

Please note: I am not a lawyer With that said, pretty much everyone in my family, including my SO, are lawyers and I have been around the block a few times when it comes to discussing slander / libel suits in the US. As an independent 3rd party with no interest in the world of Chess, I don't see how Niemann expects to win any damages in this case. In the US the bar for slander is very high due to the existence of the…

Another interesting lawyer analysis can be found on twitter at

https://twitter.com/AkivaMCohen/status/1583225640873959424

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#228

Post by tromp »

jjk166 wrote: post #127
treis wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games were on a 30 minute broadcast delay with no in person audience. Vibrating butt plug works for receive but can't think of a plausible way for Hans to send the moves out.

Clench in morse code?

No, not in morse code. Instead, the computer will (through vibration) cycle through a list of likely last moves, and you confirm the opponent's last move by clenching right after it comes up. This minimizes the considerable risk of incorrect move entry.

The list will also include a special entry indicating "none of the above", which will make the computer switch to the next set of less likely moves.

This scheme could be refined be having some move partitioning on top. For example, an initial list that has only ["pawn move", "light piece move", "heavy piece move"].

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#229

Post by incomingpain »

2bitencryption wrote: post #44

Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…

>Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating).

as far as i can tell he's hasn't cheated since 2020. Ive seen several of his games though where he certainly has cheated.

>In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it.

Magnus ultimately drew the match; the one he lost he resigned on move 2. So no remarkable performance.

>In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascendance?

The chess.com allegations has him better than bobby fischer in terms of rise. Though I would say that's not accounting for elo inflation.

>This is what I'm trying to understand - both scenarios seem so wild to me. Either (a) this guy is cheating a pro-level chess (totally wild) OR (b) he's on a crazy ramp-up of skill (totally wild).

He's an admitted cheater; but what seems to have gone unsaid is that perhaps his cheating isn't actual cheating. Rather he was reading his stream comments and viewers were cheating for him. It's not quite the same.

Flipside, streaming is always going to take some of your focus and attention. Streamers are by default not going to be able to compete at the top most level. So the probability he's at a supergm level is basically impossible.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#230

Post by chongli »

fastball wrote: post #210
Test0129 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an independent 3rd party with no interest in the world of Chess, I don't see how Niemann expects to win any damages in this case. That's not the goal with most of these libel/slander law suits. Consider the most famous one - Billy Mitchell the most infamous professional gamer of all time. The evidence is basically unanimous he cheated but he uses lawsuits to shut down people who can't afford to fight them. I ima…

The Billy Mitchell strategy doesn't make sense in this case though, since I guarantee you that all three named entities have more money to fight lawsuits than Hans Niemann.

We don’t know what Hans’s resources are. Perhaps his lawyers are working pro bono or otherwise agreed to take his case on contingency, with the rationale being that Hans is a public figure and this case may serve as advertisement for the law firm.
Post reply on HN