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The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#101

Post by _jal »

cr4nberry wrote: post #80

There's something weird about wearables and also recent advances in home surveillance. I see people posting here that the customers don't want surveillance, they want metrics. But, like... why? What's the appeal? People will spend hundreds of dollars on something like an Apple watch, and all it really does is make texts and calls slightly more convenient (I don't buy it) and give you little metrics to look at. People…

> Imo the wearables are more of a status thing than anything

All jewelry signals status. Wearables just add some functions to the ancillary time telling.

One thing I think it interesting about the status marker of wearables is that it is a bit tied to its origin at the moment. Maybe that will wear off in time, but as of now, they have a whiff of "white collar drone" to them. The really wealthy people I know wear (very expensive) analog watches, or nothing on their wrist.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#102

Post by pannSun »

rootusrootus wrote: post #97
cr4nberry wrote: post #80

There's something weird about wearables and also recent advances in home surveillance. I see people posting here that the customers don't want surveillance, they want metrics. But, like... why? What's the appeal? People will spend hundreds of dollars on something like an Apple watch, and all it really does is make texts and calls slightly more convenient (I don't buy it) and give you little metrics to look at. People…

> whenever I see someone wearing one it just pisses me off That seems kind of extreme. You don't like it, just don't buy it? Personally, I like my Apple Watch, it's pretty handy. I couldn't care less about any sort of 'status' it projects (and it doesn't -- everyone around me has one, it's not noteworthy to have one strapped to your wrist).

> You don't like it, just don't buy it?

The remainder of his post explains why such an individual solution isn't enough: it doesn't stop society as a whole slipping further into total surveillance, until eventually it swallows you as well. Either compelled by law, or non-negotiable contract, or by a large fraction of your friends owning surveillance devices, catching you in their crossfire.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#103

Post by colechristensen »

buildyourown wrote: post #86
smoldesu wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People said the same thing about recycling. It's fun to go through the motions of faux privacy optimism, but a handful of good-doers don't offset the harm caused by a mob of complacent laymen.

Recycling is a scam. It mostly just gets trashed on the other end. All the time and money spent on it would be better spent elsewhere. It’s just a massive feel good exercise.

Recycling metal isn’t a scam, especially aluminum where a surprisingly high percentage of the amount of aluminum ever produced is still in use and it can be recycled to a pristine state with much less energy than producing from ore.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#104

Post by belfalas »

oliveshell wrote: post #95
belfalas wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You jest, but most likely someone at Amazon will read this and think to themselves: "you know...the for-profit private prison industry is ripe for disruption. This could be a good lead." Also, what you describe has been done before in history. In the 19th century in the US there were "Pullman Towns" - everything from A to Z owned by the Pullman company. "Get baptized in a Pullman church, go to a Pullman school, work…

For the curious: besides the Pullman towns, there were many other “company towns” [1] in the United States, owned by various companies [2]. Some of the most exploitive ones were owned by mining firms, as immortalized in the famous protest song “Sixteen Tons”, with its refrain “I owe my soul to the company store”. [3] (This song may be familiar to South Park viewers.) [4] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town…

Thank you for pointing that out - yes, Pullman is one of the most famous examples but the issue was rampant during the Industrial Revolution.

In a sense we are now re-living that past, call it the "Digital Industrial Revolution."

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#105

Post by maroonblazer »

ALittleLight wrote: post #89
ericmay wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prison reform is possible. While I certainly sympathize with the aspect of reform for prison, it seems unpalatable to me to not punish, say, someone who rapes a child or with complete disrespect for the law and other people and breaks into homes or smashes car windows to basically be told to hang out and watch TV and “reform” at home with pamphlets or asinine internet courses from a state-provided computer. Parole, p…

Personally, I think corporal punishment and fines should play a much larger role. Someone who is basically a nuisance, like, a vandal, or a thief, should be dealt with via fines or community service and a punitive flogging. There is no need to incarcerate such a person for extended time at high cost to society and to the individual being punished. Criminals who are deranged, either in the sense of committing especial…

Vandals and thieves, if it's their first offense, sure, fines and community service are fine. If they're repeat offenders then they need to be locked up.

For the "deranged", I prefer imprisonment for at least two reasons:

1. They may have friends/relatives who would be harmed by them no longer existing. Why punish them?

2. Death is too easy an 'out'. If I had no other tether to society, then choosing a peaceful sleep vs a daily reminder of my actions is an easy choice; put me to sleep.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#107

Post by CamperBob2 »

belfalas wrote: post #76
ewzimm wrote: post #5

If there were an Amazon Prison option, I wonder how many people would choose it. Need to serve time? Skip the cell and stay home with a robust suite of real-time behavior analytics to ensure compliance. Conversations are processed locally and scanned for restricted subjects with advanced AI. A special Amazon Prison store offers a full suite of approved products with automatic payments, accessible with Alexa, and cust…

You jest, but most likely someone at Amazon will read this and think to themselves: "you know...the for-profit private prison industry is ripe for disruption. This could be a good lead." Also, what you describe has been done before in history. In the 19th century in the US there were "Pullman Towns" - everything from A to Z owned by the Pullman company. "Get baptized in a Pullman church, go to a Pullman school, work…

You jest, but most likely someone at Amazon will read this and think to themselves: "you know...the for-profit private prison industry is ripe for disruption. This could be a good lead."

"Good business is where you find it." - Dick Jones, Omni Consumer Products

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#108

Post by ClumsyPilot »

ALittleLight wrote: post #89
ericmay wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prison reform is possible. While I certainly sympathize with the aspect of reform for prison, it seems unpalatable to me to not punish, say, someone who rapes a child or with complete disrespect for the law and other people and breaks into homes or smashes car windows to basically be told to hang out and watch TV and “reform” at home with pamphlets or asinine internet courses from a state-provided computer. Parole, p…

Personally, I think corporal punishment and fines should play a much larger role. Someone who is basically a nuisance, like, a vandal, or a thief, should be dealt with via fines or community service and a punitive flogging. There is no need to incarcerate such a person for extended time at high cost to society and to the individual being punished. Criminals who are deranged, either in the sense of committing especial…

is there any evidence to backup the approached you propose as effective, efficient, or desirable in any way?

Especially since you seem to advocate flogging, which is a form of torture.

And advocate executions, which grants the government ultinate tyranical power over a citizen.

And when a mistake is made, and the innocent is executed, this mistake can never be corrected.

Such mistakes are quite conmon, as apparently in America police will lie in counrt, claim that their dog can smell a body that was in a particular location years ago, but now cannot be found and jurors will convict based on testimony of a dog.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#109

Post by ClumsyPilot »

slt2021 wrote: post #35
yamtaddle wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost anything would be worth it to avoid prolonged contact with other prisoners and prison guards.

Then prison as a punishment will stop becoming a punishment and will reduce incentive to abide by laws

well why stop there, lets bring back brutal medieval torture, I am sure if people are threatened with being drawn and quartered that will bring the crime rate right down.

Russia has torture in prisons and 99% conviction rate, how cone their crime rate is high?

Finland's prisons look like 3 star hotels, how come their crime rate is low?

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#110

Post by int_19h »

ericmay wrote: post #81
noduerme wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still punishment to not be allowed to leave your home. Not as uncomfortable as prison, obviously. But this gets into whether the main goal of prison is to cause physical discomfort as punishment or to protect society. When you look at the routine nature of beatings and rape in prisons, whether or not you are okay with people receiving that as punishment you have to admit that those aren't the punishments prescri…

Prison reform is possible. While I certainly sympathize with the aspect of reform for prison, it seems unpalatable to me to not punish, say, someone who rapes a child or with complete disrespect for the law and other people and breaks into homes or smashes car windows to basically be told to hang out and watch TV and “reform” at home with pamphlets or asinine internet courses from a state-provided computer. Parole, p…

Prison is a very poor choice of punishment (no surprise there, since the original intent for prisons was to replace punishments with rehabilitation!). First, the punitive aspect of confinement varies greatly from person to person. But also, long-term isolation is a great way to ruin the person's economic prospects of honest living after prison while at the same time putting them into the environment that often encourages "learning crime" (and the associated attitudes), so to speak.

(I'm not saying that isolation is never necessary. But it should be clearly separated from punishment.)

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