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The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

theatlantic.com

71–80 of 205 posts

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#71
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read the article but I think the outrage is misplaced. There are people forced to wear a Islamic head dress. The solution is not to ban Islamic head dress. There are people forced into sex slavery and prostitution. The solution isn't to ban prostitution. There are people who are forced into an abortion. The solution is not to ban abortion. The solution to abuse cannot be curtailing of rights.

First of all, at least you are honest about commenting on something for which you have no basis to be commenting on, having not read the article. Second, the appropriate response may not be to ban all of those things outright, but comprehensive regulation is certainly within the best interests of society. Finally, the casual assertion of abortion as a right is noted and summarily rejected. I won’t engage further thou…

> as a right

I just want to note that there are two types of "rights." There's positive and negative rights.

Negative rights are the typical libertarian types of issues, namely that things cannot be taken away from you or rather that you do not have s specific duty. These are things like freedom of speech (no duty to regulate your speech), freedom of religion (no duty to have a specific religion), fair trial, life, the right to not be enslaved by another, etc. tldr: you have no duty to act (or not act) in a certain manner.

Positive rights are typically left leaning and are entitlements. As an example, you have the right (you are entitled) to an attorney. Others include public education, national security, and a minimum wage. People are advocating for other things like the right to clean water, fair housing, higher education, health care, internet access, etc. tldr: you do have a duty to act (or not act) in a certain manner (often in the form of taxes).

I bring this up because people often talk past one another because they just say "rights" and are using different definition. So I believe this causes a lot of fighting rather than productive conversation as people just embed the idea that "rights are rights." It is also a good example of where communication breaks down because what is obvious to one party is not obvious to another party and they are operating in completely different frameworks, refusing to recognize that the other party is operating in said framework.

As for abortion (maybe I'm maybe sidetracking) it is often considered a negative right because one (the state) needs to take action to stop a specific action (abortion). Though it can also be framed as a positive right if either 1) the fetus is viewed as a human, and thus they are being deprived of their rights to life through the action of another or 2) one is forcing physicians to perform abortions.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#72
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If how terrible prison is what backs your incentive to abide by laws, I'm worried. Criminals generally don't expect to be caught, the quality of prison doesn't matter much if you're not planning on going there.

there is always risk/reward calculation. if you replace prison time with home arrest, then you remove downside to being caught. Especially for second/Nth time offenders.

People often think that's the case, because it kind of makes sense. But real world data suggest it doesn't work that way.

In fact you are generally just making your problems worse. First and biggest problem is, that it turns small time crooks into hardcore criminals, because that's the only way to survive on the inside.

So unless you never plan on releasing anyone out of prison, having bad prisons is not great idea.

Second If prisons are so bad, it makes it more likely people will do whatever they can to stay out. There is big difference between spending 2 years doing some manual labor, having bad bed and bad food or being gang raped. And the lesion is not, no to do crime like you and I would hope, but to kill/intimidate witnesses etc.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#73
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If how terrible prison is what backs your incentive to abide by laws, I'm worried. Criminals generally don't expect to be caught, the quality of prison doesn't matter much if you're not planning on going there.

there is always risk/reward calculation. if you replace prison time with home arrest, then you remove downside to being caught. Especially for second/Nth time offenders.

> there is always risk/reward calculation.

You have not been around criminals much, and it shows. That’s really not how all of this works, and you’re applying logic to something that offenders themselves often don’t.

If they did, the USAs horrific prison system would work. But it doesn’t.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#74
post #27
post #5

If there were an Amazon Prison option, I wonder how many people would choose it. Need to serve time? Skip the cell and stay home with a robust suite of real-time behavior analytics to ensure compliance. Conversations are processed locally and scanned for restricted subjects with advanced AI. A special Amazon Prison store offers a full suite of approved products with automatic payments, accessible with Alexa, and cust…

Maybe "Amazon Prism" (a "Prime" members' version of "prison") has a catchier ring to it...

I would have gone with Amazon Prime Time

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#75

As nerds we have an advantage here. We can use prosumer/professional oriented tech that respects your privacy more. Don’t get a Ring. Use your own cameras and a Synology and, if you must, their e2e-encrypted backup solution. If there’s no privacy-respecting equivalents, then… do without.

People said the same thing about recycling. It's fun to go through the motions of faux privacy optimism, but a handful of good-doers don't offset the harm caused by a mob of complacent laymen.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#76
post #5

If there were an Amazon Prison option, I wonder how many people would choose it. Need to serve time? Skip the cell and stay home with a robust suite of real-time behavior analytics to ensure compliance. Conversations are processed locally and scanned for restricted subjects with advanced AI. A special Amazon Prison store offers a full suite of approved products with automatic payments, accessible with Alexa, and cust…

You jest, but most likely someone at Amazon will read this and think to themselves: "you know...the for-profit private prison industry is ripe for disruption. This could be a good lead."

Also, what you describe has been done before in history. In the 19th century in the US there were "Pullman Towns" - everything from A to Z owned by the Pullman company.

"Get baptized in a Pullman church, go to a Pullman school, work for Pullman all your life, and get buried in a Pullman graveyard." was an activist slogan at the time. (I learned this from history class at university, paraphrasing from memory).

More on Pullman Towns here: https://www.pullman-museum.org/theTown/

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#77
post #70

People desire the sensors and metrics and integration etc...not the Amazon overlord part. The article pitches it as something people willingly embrace which doesn't seem correct to me. Its more like reluctantly accept due to the benefits. I'm personally hoping that a lot of this becomes more accessible via the Matter protocol

[deleted]

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#78
post #27
post #5

If there were an Amazon Prison option, I wonder how many people would choose it. Need to serve time? Skip the cell and stay home with a robust suite of real-time behavior analytics to ensure compliance. Conversations are processed locally and scanned for restricted subjects with advanced AI. A special Amazon Prison store offers a full suite of approved products with automatic payments, accessible with Alexa, and cust…

Maybe "Amazon Prism" (a "Prime" members' version of "prison") has a catchier ring to it...

Amazon Panopticon would be my submission. If you're going to go evil, lean in all the way.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#79
post #66

We are rapidly approaching Fahrenheit 451. I was about to purchase a COROS fitness watch to track and aid my return to distance running. This article reminded me why I should not.

Your life would have not been affected one way or the other. This is just persecution complex suffered by elite, liberal class who literally have nothing to worry about anything but want to feel the same outrage as people who have real sufferings

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#80
There's something weird about wearables and also recent advances in home surveillance. I see people posting here that the customers don't want surveillance, they want metrics. But, like... why? What's the appeal?

People will spend hundreds of dollars on something like an Apple watch, and all it really does is make texts and calls slightly more convenient (I don't buy it) and give you little metrics to look at. People are paying hundreds of dollars to see their heart rate or mobility data? Does it really mean this much to them?

Imo the wearables are more of a status thing than anything, but whenever I see someone wearing one it just pisses me off. Specifically the more expensive ones, but also the less expensive ones. I'm sure there are valid (niche) uses like if the wearer has some health condition, but for the general market?

Not only this, but once you normalize them who's to say things like this[0] won't happen? Who's to say insurance companies don't start nudging them harder until Congress does something about it?

Something that I'm not entirely opposed to are wearables that don't connect to the internet and let you see local sensor data. This makes sense from a metrics standpoint. But why exactly is the phoning home to Apple/Google even necessary? What value does it add (for the customer)?

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/with-fitness...

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