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The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#81

Post by ericmay »

noduerme wrote: post #59
ericmay wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just called house arrest. It’s not really prison or punishment if I’m comfortable at home.

It's still punishment to not be allowed to leave your home. Not as uncomfortable as prison, obviously. But this gets into whether the main goal of prison is to cause physical discomfort as punishment or to protect society. When you look at the routine nature of beatings and rape in prisons, whether or not you are okay with people receiving that as punishment you have to admit that those aren't the punishments prescri…

Prison reform is possible.

While I certainly sympathize with the aspect of reform for prison, it seems unpalatable to me to not punish, say, someone who rapes a child or with complete disrespect for the law and other people and breaks into homes or smashes car windows to basically be told to hang out and watch TV and “reform” at home with pamphlets or asinine internet courses from a state-provided computer.

Parole, probation, house arrest, etc. are tools we have to provide more leniency at the discretion of a judge as appropriate. And there are different levels of prisons to be considered here as well. Rehab can occur while in prison too.

But in addition to reforming prisons, we need to solve the problem at its core. Why do people do things that land them in prison in the first place? This is where healthcare, education, and other projects can stop the problem before it starts.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#82

Post by vineyardmike »

Havoc wrote: post #70

People desire the sensors and metrics and integration etc...not the Amazon overlord part. The article pitches it as something people willingly embrace which doesn't seem correct to me. Its more like reluctantly accept due to the benefits. I'm personally hoping that a lot of this becomes more accessible via the Matter protocol

> ..not the Amazon overlord part.

If anything the really successful implementations of this generally are overlord free.

You can quibble about how trustworthy apple should be, but people generally consider them more trustworthy. Especially due to their "on device only" stance. They're also the most successful smart-watch and biometric tracker. They're also making great progress on the voice assistant front too.

> more accessible via the Matter protocol

Unlikely IMO. Matter just isn't there yet, and doesn't mandate local only, and doesn't apply to camera/audio, which is big on the invasiveness front.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#83

Post by Gigachad »

cr4nberry wrote: post #80

There's something weird about wearables and also recent advances in home surveillance. I see people posting here that the customers don't want surveillance, they want metrics. But, like... why? What's the appeal? People will spend hundreds of dollars on something like an Apple watch, and all it really does is make texts and calls slightly more convenient (I don't buy it) and give you little metrics to look at. People…

One thing the watches really do well is they make it much easier to notice a call or message in a loud environment. Before getting a smartwatch, you'd easily miss a call if your phone is in your pocket/bag and you are in a crowded/noisy space. You basically always notice if its a vibrating watch unless you have your hands on something vibrating.

But yes, largely the Apple Watch doesn't enable new activities. It just makes a whole lot of common ones easier and faster with less pulling you phone out.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#84

Post by giobox »

cr4nberry wrote: post #80

There's something weird about wearables and also recent advances in home surveillance. I see people posting here that the customers don't want surveillance, they want metrics. But, like... why? What's the appeal? People will spend hundreds of dollars on something like an Apple watch, and all it really does is make texts and calls slightly more convenient (I don't buy it) and give you little metrics to look at. People…

For sports or fitness, simple metrics like HR band based training or distance measuring simply work in many cases and lead to measurable improvements in health or sporting ability over the course of a few months. Even before Apple watch came along, loads of cycling/running enthusiasts where taking advantage of metrics to train better via tools like GPS watches and ANT+ power meters. It works, if you apply yourself, and those devices couldn't even do calls or texts - thats frankly a bonus feature.

I used dedicated Garmin devices for years, Apple have packaged it up and made it so pretty much anyone can take advantage. While no one in the absolute needs an Apple watch to lose weight or get fitter, for some people it works, so have at it, frankly. Friendly competition on strava.com has been great motivator for me at times in my life over the last decade - devices like apple watch are gateway to that world.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#85

Post by coldtea »

ewzimm wrote: post #5

If there were an Amazon Prison option, I wonder how many people would choose it. Need to serve time? Skip the cell and stay home with a robust suite of real-time behavior analytics to ensure compliance. Conversations are processed locally and scanned for restricted subjects with advanced AI. A special Amazon Prison store offers a full suite of approved products with automatic payments, accessible with Alexa, and cust…

>Need to serve time? Skip the cell and stay home with a robust suite of real-time behavior analytics to ensure compliance.

How would that differ from regular life?

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#86

Post by buildyourown »

smoldesu wrote: post #75
buildyourown wrote: post #67

As nerds we have an advantage here. We can use prosumer/professional oriented tech that respects your privacy more. Don’t get a Ring. Use your own cameras and a Synology and, if you must, their e2e-encrypted backup solution. If there’s no privacy-respecting equivalents, then… do without.

People said the same thing about recycling. It's fun to go through the motions of faux privacy optimism, but a handful of good-doers don't offset the harm caused by a mob of complacent laymen.

Recycling is a scam. It mostly just gets trashed on the other end. All the time and money spent on it would be better spent elsewhere. It’s just a massive feel good exercise.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#87

Post by hedgehog »

cr4nberry wrote: post #80

There's something weird about wearables and also recent advances in home surveillance. I see people posting here that the customers don't want surveillance, they want metrics. But, like... why? What's the appeal? People will spend hundreds of dollars on something like an Apple watch, and all it really does is make texts and calls slightly more convenient (I don't buy it) and give you little metrics to look at. People…

I recently switched from a mechanical watch to Apple Watch. Here's why: First, I wanted metrics on sleep and exercise to manage against (how am I allocating my time) and better understand how to optimize performance (e.g. even one beer has noticeable impact on rest). Second, I want an easier way to get a subset of notifications without picking up my phone. My hands are full with work or family most of the day so this helps me be responsive. Third, I want the first two without granting wholesale access to all the data. Works pretty well, the big annoying downside is it's one more device to charge.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#88

Post by vineyardmike »

tetromino_ wrote: post #45
DennisP wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about my neighbor's Ring doorbell, pointed at my front door from across the street?

I don't know about you and your neighbor. But my neighbor (a black man, fyi) was very happy that my Nest camera's field of view was just barely wide enough to include his door and window, and recorded video of the dude who climbed through his window and stole his kid's MacBook. A couple days after that, my neighbor got a camera of his own. I'm happy that he did so; my camera made his home safer, and his makes mine sa…

> recorded video of the dude who climbed through his window and stole his kid's MacBook.

> my camera made his home safer,

How did the camera help? It seems that he has to worry about you or the police watching his house, and still has to worry about burglary

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#89

Post by ALittleLight »

ericmay wrote: post #81
noduerme wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still punishment to not be allowed to leave your home. Not as uncomfortable as prison, obviously. But this gets into whether the main goal of prison is to cause physical discomfort as punishment or to protect society. When you look at the routine nature of beatings and rape in prisons, whether or not you are okay with people receiving that as punishment you have to admit that those aren't the punishments prescri…

Prison reform is possible. While I certainly sympathize with the aspect of reform for prison, it seems unpalatable to me to not punish, say, someone who rapes a child or with complete disrespect for the law and other people and breaks into homes or smashes car windows to basically be told to hang out and watch TV and “reform” at home with pamphlets or asinine internet courses from a state-provided computer. Parole, p…

Personally, I think corporal punishment and fines should play a much larger role. Someone who is basically a nuisance, like, a vandal, or a thief, should be dealt with via fines or community service and a punitive flogging. There is no need to incarcerate such a person for extended time at high cost to society and to the individual being punished.

Criminals who are deranged, either in the sense of committing especially heinous crimes (e.g. child rape) or in the sense of repeatedly committing serious crimes without evidence that they are able to reform should be humanely executed the same way we put down problematic animals.

Re: The Rise of ‘Luxury Surveillance’

#90

Post by vineyardmike »

godelski wrote: post #57
pooper wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read the article but I think the outrage is misplaced. There are people forced to wear a Islamic head dress. The solution is not to ban Islamic head dress. There are people forced into sex slavery and prostitution. The solution isn't to ban prostitution. There are people who are forced into an abortion. The solution is not to ban abortion. The solution to abuse cannot be curtailing of rights.

I agree and disagree. As I see it, the solution is to use privacy preserving techniques. Federated learning would be a nice start but isn't good enough. Homomorphic learning would be the acceptable solution here as we could then preserve privacy and get the benefits (corporations would still profit from the data too). I'm honestly surprised that there's no big push for this by companies like Meta, Google, or Apple. Y…

> I'm honestly surprised that there's no big push for this by companies like Meta, Google, or Apple. You want to say you actually care about privacy? Put your money where your mouth is.

Apple HomeKit will stream, process, encrypt the data locally then upload the encrypted data to iCloud so I think we're seeing it?

Lots of other companies (nest?) are offering on-device or on-lan processing of video feed. TBH this is probably so the company saves on bandwidth.

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