One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…
I have two kids, one is independent second one is almost three but still needs my semi-supervision. Most of my time I spend working or pursuing hobbies. But outdoor time is still limited but I guess that too won’t be a challenge soon.
I have seen a few folks who are without kids in their late 30s and 40s. While they are financially successful they seem sort of lost, without any purpose. For me, having kids gives me that anchoring purpose. It’s two new humans going through their own life journey and it gives me immense satisfaction that I am playing a small part of that and that I will live on in their memories, hopefully good memories :-)
Who got the top bunk? I love visiting my family but after a couple weeks, I feel like a kid again and start acting like one. Asking for dinner, sneaking out to smoke, staying up late watching cable TV. Any extended amount of time feels unhealthy. But now that they're about to start getting actually old, I want to visit constantly because nothing is forever.
> Who got the top bunk? If I'm being honest, my parents had an enormous house, so we all got our own rooms and there was still an office space available. They sold it after we all moved out again. We all made a tremendous effort to stay adults regarding keeping the place in order and cooking. We'd cycle dinner prep through all of us based on work schedules. It was interesting, and since all of our collective friends…
Uh older dad checking in ... if your parents are in their early 50s and have several children with actual work schedules ... they are not old. Heh.
While it may be a true statistic, it seems to dramatically miss the boat. Time spent with a newborn, with an infant, with a four year old, with a ten year old, with a sixteen year old, with a twenty year old are not the same. You can have more interaction, more contentment, more sense of continuity, and more sense of family, in a Thanksgiving weekend spent with your adult child and their family than the entirety of y…
What percent of statistics are made up again? 75% maybe?
I agree but sadly my 3 year old isn't able to rock climb, and he's a danger to himself in a room with free weights (much less actual plates), so I think I may just have to pick up additional hobbies.
Maybe he’s too young now but many kids like climbing in general so soon you might be able to go climbing together :)
Exactly, and the only way to one day be actually have teenage kid(s) to share the joy of climbing with, is to have earlier looked after young kids that weren't ready yet to go climbing. ;) OK, some people may say when they're teenagers they'll just want to "hang out at the mall" but I suspect some things, like e:g rock climbing, or making music, are potentially still very cool to teenagers even when being done with parents. (Disclaimer, ours are still young, so yet to see if they'll want to do that later, but their level of interest in the outdoors and music is highly promising so far...)
They don't last forever... But they are still there. They still take time and energy, probably at a point in life where you can do absolutely everything but have to choose. It also has an impact on your health, because you can't live 3-4 years with short nights and not have an effect on you. It still costs money. It still takes up some of your nights to do something else. As a non-parent, and someone who doesn't want…
> good outweighs the bad It's not that sort of rational choice. Choice can be an enemy of joy. For most of human history you just woke up one day and found you were a parent (no immaculate miracles necessary). Birth control and career centred lifestyles have changed that. And that's mostly good, at least for child welfare. But what if life were more arbitrary? I remember that strange study on happiness that followed…
> It's not that sort of rational choice.
It has to be. It's all nice and rosy to feel blessed by sharing your life with another human being, but it is a lifelong commitment, with a good chunk of time and money dedicated to it. If I look at the first link investigating income (https://www.investopedia.com/median-income-by-state-5070640), I see that between 9% and 19% people are below or at the poverty rate in the US. Is it rational to have a child in this situation ?
Children take focus and abnegation for education. Do you have the mental space for them ? Will you keep your cool at all time and never let anger get the better of you ? Do you have the support structure for helping you, the parent, when things go wrong ?
Only people with comfortable lives, who can afford kindergarten, nannies or people-to-whom-you-drop-them-off, all the specific furniture, can say the choice is not that rational. But that's definitely not where most people are.
One thing that might be hard to appreciate is how much, at least for me, having kids changed my personality. I’ve become a much more patient person. Spending extended periods of time with my kids almost has a meditative quality in which I’m living in the moment and absorbing my surroundings in a deliberate way. My son’s presence in his environment provides a fresh perspective that I can tune into and ride along with.
That's interesting. Kids made me much less patient, and also far more selfish. I have much less free time so I get absolutely frustrated if the remainder is wasted. I have far less money so I am loathe to give it to anyone in need or do much but hoard money at all costs lest the child need more $100 bills for the roaring cash fire they are. I have no time for friends so I have little incentive to be kind or cordial t…
Isn't that just that your patience / giving capacity is just being exhausted by your kid at the mo' ? No-one has unlimited capacity in that area. Maybe when the kid gets bigger, more independent, less demanding, you'll go back to how you were before? You might just have to apologise to some friends for having been cranky for a while? ;) Also don't underestimate how much capacity is drained by juggling work and kids. I think a lot of people who say kids are hard, really, their problem is work drains them too much. So, finding a more laid-back job, WFH etc, helps. I'm for sure much more laid back in the morning with the kids than I would be if I still had to rush out to the office. And reasonably laid-back about being interrupted from work to see the latest picture they've drawn or whatever, cos my work is not as stressful as some previous jobs
The main problem isn't growth or the lack of it - it's generally decreased welfare of older people because there's no family member or caregiver to periodically check up on them and recognize early signs of deteriorating health - especially mental health.
Again, this is a very fixable problem, and society will be the better for it by learning to adapt better rather than just throwing more kids at the problem. Kids do not owe their parents anything, including geriatric care.
If it's fixable, then the fix was not implemented in societies which are aging the most.
People don't owe their parents anything, but they naturally do at least give a shit about them - provided they had a good relationship.
Less kids, less adults who would volunteer to do it.
One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…
I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…
Are you exhausted from the kids, or because your job exhausts you too much to have energy left for them? In which case change jobs? Sure kids are tiring, temperamental, they go completely hyper, argue incessantly about stuff, don't get ready to go out when asked, don't go to sleep then are tired and fractious next day, change their mind about what they want to do when you made a big effort for them, fight with each other (as well as being very nice and caring to each other next minute) etc etc. But they're delightful, and funny, and super companions at the same time. As for hobbies, as others have said, finding hobbies you can do with your kids is good. The great outdoors and music making can be shared at a young age, if they're into that. I found even reading them stories, as they get older the books get more interesting, many kids books are actually fascinating for adults.
One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…
I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…
Kind of makes me anxious about having kids but I have also heard, on the other end, senior people expressing how gloomy it feels to not have kids. And unlike the tiredness of having kids, that anxiety only grows forever till the day you die and all you leave behind is a nice car.
I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…
My partner and I have 5 kids under 7yrs old -- four of whom are adopted and two of whom are struggling with severe developmental delays (and likely autism, still waiting on formal diagnosis). When kids get older, they get a lot more "fun" and a lot less immediate work. I can take my eldest two out pretty much anywhere without a ton of effort, they are fun to hang out with, they can be trusted to be kind and respectfu…
Much respect to you for adopting 4 kids, especially those with additional needs! :) To this "We have one child who is at high risk of never developing cognitively enough to safely live on their own as an adult.", I'd argue, society in general needs to look after people like this much better. Everyone, particularly the rich, should be paying their fare share of taxes to cover decent quality care for those unable to look after themselves due to disability. That includes respecting the people who work in that field properly as doing a vital job, and paying them well enough. When parents feel that this lifetime responsibility falls on them alone, I feel that something is severely broken. What about people with learning disability who do not have family to look out for them? They need a system to look after them. I think some of the comments on this discussion reflect that there's a lack of general support for families, especially in the USA with its insufficient social programmes.