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75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

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Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#271

Post by morgtheborg »

kotlin2 wrote: post #89
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #29

A huge asterisk here is that this varies greatly by culture. For better or worse* certain cultures value strong family bonds and time spent with the parents, as well as bilateral support well into adulthood. Many cultures also encourage multigenerational living within a single household (or in extremely close proximity like my parents did). For example, my parents were happy to have me live at home as long as I wante…

How much did you hang out with them once you were home though? With a < 12 year old, you spend a few hours in the morning + from like 5:30 pm until bedtime on weekdays, and then the entire weekend, with your kid. I lived at home for some time. I spent an hour maximum per day with my dad, including on weekends.

Whoa. My siblings and I were in and out of my family house throughout our 20s. Hell, during COVID a bunch of us moved back in in our 30s, kids in tow.

And we spend HOURS per day with our parents when living at home, even when teens. Evenings were hanging out as a family usually, whether that meant reading in the same room, watching movies, playing board games, whatever. All during the evening when they got home from work.

Heck, family dinner alone is an hour a day.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#272

Post by notch656a »

kbrannigan wrote: post #87
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #29

A huge asterisk here is that this varies greatly by culture. For better or worse* certain cultures value strong family bonds and time spent with the parents, as well as bilateral support well into adulthood. Many cultures also encourage multigenerational living within a single household (or in extremely close proximity like my parents did). For example, my parents were happy to have me live at home as long as I wante…

Yes! American, Anglo-Saxon culture while widespread is not the norm. There is such thing as Inter-generational living. You often see advice on the internet: Why are you 20 and still living with your parents, you're a loser. You're 30 still living with your parents, you won't amount to anything. Yeah right!!! Meanwhile they leave alone with a dog, - need a ton of additional psychotherapy to stay sane. - Need to setup…

>You're 30 still living with your parents, you won't amount to anything.

More like, fail to achieve cultural expectations, "you won't amount to anything."

The average guy living at home at 30 in USA is probably not as geared towards success as the average person living at home at 30 in a country where something else is the measure of success. There are exceptions but people who meet their own countries standards tends to correlate with overall life success.

Clearly you can buck the cultural expectations and succeed, so it's not a hard and fast rule. Of course, some cultural expectations are more difficult to overcome than others: if you piss publicly next to the highway it could earn you a felony charge and torpedo your career, even though there's no practical reason why pissing by the side of the road should make you a lifelong failure.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#273

Post by morgtheborg »

elil17 wrote: post #216
netsharc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long, but at the end he does the stats about approximate time left with his parents: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/12/the-tail-end.html

Reading this article a couple years back got me to really question why I was planning to move far away from my parents and spend so little time with them. Changed some life plans based on that.

Yep. I was raised moving a lot and assumed I'd do the same as an adult. But then I thought of how rarely my parents saw their parents. And how much I love my parents and siblings. I ended up marrying a man who also traveled a lot as a child; both of us are happy to prioritize being near family.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#274

Post by morgtheborg »

sneak wrote: post #268
morgtheborg wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I guess I see the sacrifice as making my old-person life not shit not because I have kids. So I'm investing prime years so the potentially long amount of time I'm all aged has more meaning/purpose/love in them. I'll say my aunt didn't have kids. And while we were little I guess she told my Mom she had no regrets. But at some point in our 20s, she backed off that a bit as she (finally) saw the benefit of kid. I a…

This assumes that your old person life will be shit without kids, an assumption I do not think holds true.

I don't think it will be pure shit, no, but at the point I can't physically do fun things anymore (whenever you think that will be) there really isn't much let to DO which means your relationships are going to be clutch. And the longer the relationship the more meaningful (generally), so having kids seems like a strong enhancement.

I don't think it's binary "sucks/not sucks", but I do think, for me, it'd clearly be sig LESS fun to be old without kids based on what I've seen of the older people in my life with different family situations. Seems shitty to me.

I'm sure there are people who have the opposite experience, but I was trying to explain why the "sacrifice" of prime years can be seen as an investment rather than a straight loss.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#275

Post by irrational »

kotlin2 wrote: post #144
nyokodo wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> equal outcomes How do you compare the outcome for a kid who never exists? People are an end in themselves before considering any outcomes.

If people are an end to themselves, everyone would have as many kids as possible. Clearly some people believe people to be an end to themselves, but I doubt that opinion is held by the majority. My question about outcomes was specifically about those that exist.

I think what they mean is, every person is different and it is impossible to say how any individual would be if they had been raised in a large family instead of a small one, or vice versa.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#276

Post by notch656a »

morgtheborg wrote: post #248
kotlin2 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm that’s interesting. I wonder if the two systems produce equal outcomes into adulthood.

I know that I come from a family of five and was starved for attention. My husband comes from a family of 2 and felt he always got attention when he wanted it. Like some of my strongest memories are of leaving notes for my Mom about how I felt neglected and was in room waiting for her just to BE there with me. She'd last about ten minutes before she'd begin multi-tasking. Not because she was a bad mom but because she…

It's interesting how opinions on this change depending on how it's phrased.

Sometimes I see it phrased as older kids taking on some of the labor in what is perceived as maturity building activity that may serve them in adulthood.

Others use a completely different phrase, calling it "parentification" and then call it child abuse or worse, believing it's better for the kids to all fight for the resource of the parent rather than share the burden with older children.

I withhold a conclusion of what the results are. But it's funny to me to see how the opinions can be gamed based on how you frame it.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#277

Post by spockz »

mlyle wrote: post #207
sneak wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sleepless nights and diaper changes are a mere blip on the scale of a lifetime with kids. You're looking at what, 2-5 years of that? Per kid? Plus the huge time commitments for all of the other burdensome stuff that having kids entails, like school and transport and non-school education? 2-5 years out of a lifetime isn't much, but 2-5 years out of your 30s or early 40s is a gigantic percentage of your remaining…

> You're looking at what, 2-5 years of that? 5 years of diaper changes? Or sleepless nights? Diaper changes can end by mid-year 2. Sleepless nights can be mostly eased well within a year. Of course, there's always random suck. I had a crisis that I was receiving texts up till 3AM... and then my 8 year old showed up with a stomachache at 3:30AM.

Not all kids are the same. There will be exceptions and you don’t get to choose. Our Pete child wakes up screaming in the night and is so distraught she can’t stop for hours. Many things like therapy and psych stuff have been attempted to no avail.

Murphy’s law is indeed a thing as well. All three kids waking up sequentially because of some trouble or ache. It does happen but is very rare.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#278

Post by fn1 »

WheatMillington wrote: post #90
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

> Weekends are just chaos...

It is normal that kids take up all your time, but "just chaos" doesn't sound right.

Without knowing your situation, maybe this helps: As you probably know first there was authoritarian parenting (rule the kids), then permissive parenting (let them do whatever they want), both of which create problems for the children.

The parenting-style agreed upon today by psychologists is "authoritative parenting", which basically means telling the kids what you want them to do, but giving them a lenient timeframe and freedom to chose how and when they do it. It raises their self-esteem and encourages them to work together with you.

https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/types-of-parenti...

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#279

Post by spockz »

xeromal wrote: post #181
balfirevic wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is such thing as Inter-generational living I'm neither American nor Anglo-Saxon, but yes, there is such thing as living hell.

Your mileage may vary. It's not inter-generational but I (31 years) live in a house with my brother (26 years) and sister (25 years) live in a house we own together all with our own respective partners, etc. It's not for everyone but I promise you this. We ain't lonely. lol.

To be fair, that is hardly inter generational.

Re: 75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12

#280

Post by riffraff »

WheatMillington wrote: post #90
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #41

One of the things I have a hard time conveying to non-parents is that the most time-intensive parts of parenting don't last forever. I've talked to a lot of young people who say they don't want kids because they think their personal lives will permanently halt the moment they have kids. I spend a lot of time trying to explain that: 1) I still spend a lot of time with friends and can do most of my personal hobbies/act…

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myse…

> As for enjoying hanging around with kids.... I don't know what age that starts, but I'm 5 years and counting.

My kids are 6 and 8 and I have enjoyed spending time with them since they were little. I do get tired and want to be alone after a while tho.

I think we should just accept the fact that some people enjoy children and some don't.

It makes sense, some people like ballet some outdoor activities some videogames, there's no reason to expect kids would be different.

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