Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

neil.computer

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 420 posts

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#391

Post by sirwhinesalot »

jen20 wrote: post #348
sirwhinesalot wrote: post #320

I've been looking for a reason to leave the comfort of JetBrains tools for VSCode, and this might be it. I don't have a particularly strong opinion about the new UI, other than that it looks way too much like VSCode and way too little like the current one. The main reason I use JetBrains stuff is that I'm familiar with the interface, it's messy but I know where to find all I need. VSCode is unusable without writing j…

> I've been looking for a reason If you’re looking for a reason, you’d have found one regardless of anything else.

Ridiculous notion. I'm paying for their software for a reason. If they're winning against free it's because their offering is worthwhile.

Of course I'd rather use the free alternative that nearly every language provides official support for. It's the job of JetBrains, who are selling a competition paid product, to make it worthwhile for me to keep paying.

As the value of their product decreases, and the quality of the free offering increases, at some point a small increase in productivity is not worth the added cost. It has to be sufficiently better.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#392

Post by MockObject »

mcluck wrote: post #274
matsemann wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I'm not "rewarding the post with hundred of points", but I've upvoted because I share the sentiment and want JetBrains to really consider each change they make: Is it for change's sake, or because it's actually better ?

What makes you think that they haven't already considered it? It's rather offensive to assume that a group of UX professionals decided to take on a massive overhaul just for fun. Given UX has never been a major priority at JetBrains, it implies that they decided it was valuable enough to spend the time and money on this. I just can't imagine this was done on a whim

> It's rather offensive to assume that a group of UX professionals decided to take on a massive overhaul just for fun.

Not fun, but giving themselves work.

Unfortunately, no UI team ever got rewarded for leaving a good product alone. They're hired to work, so they work.

Anyone old enough has seen the quality of certain products peak and then decline, after the company just couldn't leave well enough alone, and ruined excellence with needless tampering. I've hung on to various applications long after their EOL because the new versions were really worse. History is replete with great websites absolutely ruined by redesigns.

This field needs more of an old traditional craftsman appreciation for excellence.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#393

Post by MockObject »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #189

I use Jetbrains IDEs every day and from the screenshot I can barely spot a difference. Everyone will be okay. This trend of crying at every pixel change is honestly laughable. Also you can install themes on Jetbrains' IDEs.

> I use Jetbrains IDEs every day and from the screenshot I can barely spot a difference. Everyone will be okay.

Except for the terminal window, it looks like an entirely different IDE.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#394

Post by andirk »

ryandrake wrote: post #365
Olreich wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you would be shocked at how often UX designers get greenlit to make a refresh based on vague things like the current code base being hard to use or keeping up with the Joneses of other products or just to have new marketing pictures that look "modern". The default assumption that this effort was made without proper consideration is right more often than its wrong. Maligning the devs? Not so much. Wanting them…

> I think you would be shocked at how often UX designers get greenlit to make a refresh based on vague things like the current code base being hard to use or keeping up with the Joneses of other products or just to have new marketing pictures that look "modern". Not JetBrains, but I worked at a small app company that embarked on multiple UX re-dos for the vaguest of reasons. If your company has a charismatic VP of De…

Bless their hearts, UI Designers. Just remodeled my kitchen and had to actively dodge my designers' and showrooms' recommendations of a "modern" look which is basically all white or make it look like a friggin office morgue. It's not flashy but it is very utility-first and is beautiful.

I aimed for something that _wouldn't_ need to change visually with the times. UI Design is often the exact opposite: showcase that your property is on the bleeding edge of design.

I wonder what they'll do once they realize you can only round a corner so much.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#395

Post by jen20 »

happymellon wrote: post #373
jen20 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presentation mode has worked well for me for code presentation for a decade both in-person on a projector and for screen sharing, across hundreds of talks. If you believe otherwise, let’s hear why rather than some kind of assertion that it must be true because you said so. For the others… well, it’s not called screen sharing mode or code pairing mode.

> For the others… well, it’s not called screen sharing mode or code pairing mode. So you agree that it doesn't work that great for the scenarios that I've been talking about?

But great for the scenario that the person I actually responded to described.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#397

Post by Spivak »

oblio wrote: post #289
_tom_ wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they have written is they are going to force a change. It's very clear. As soon as we have moved most people over, we will force you to move. You don't even have to read between the lines, it's explicit. "We won't force it for two years". We are gonna force it in two years. "We won't until the vast minority" we will as soon as most people have moved.

Software developers as developers: "Why does that random guy still pay for v1??? It's 20 years old, using Java 5 and old crap, let's force them to upgrade!!!!" Software developers as users: "Don't force me to upgrade" The hypocrisy is tangible and close to mind boggling.

As Devs: “I don’t want to maintain the old version. Don’t force work on me.”

As Users: “I don’t want to upgrade to the new version. Don’t force work on me.”

It’s not hypocritical to want your cake and eat it too. It’s only hypocritical if you think it’s wrong for companies to force people to upgrade and then doing that. Not liking when your parents forced you to eat vegetables and making your kids eat vegetables isn’t hypocrisy.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#398

Post by frankfrankfrank »

concordDance wrote: post #323
frankfrankfrank wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m going to say something even more controversial, but true; that the obfuscated thing these two prior comments are really noting is a degradation that has been obscured in distracting color or design language changes. It’s akin to “shrinkflation” that is now even totally overshadowed by the real rise in prices they said wouldn’t happen, people are starting to notice things like “hey, why are there now far less feat…

I'm happy enough to join the revolution comrade, but do we have enough men and guns to bring down the oppressors?

I hope you’re being Reddit brained, but the short answer is no, I do not see anything nearly like actually doing that. The trajectory is clearly towards the shadow of authoritarian control flowing over the whole of humanity. Don’t worry, you’ll realize it too once it’s far past way too late.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#399

Post by emeril »

MockObject wrote: post #392
mcluck wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that they haven't already considered it? It's rather offensive to assume that a group of UX professionals decided to take on a massive overhaul just for fun. Given UX has never been a major priority at JetBrains, it implies that they decided it was valuable enough to spend the time and money on this. I just can't imagine this was done on a whim

> It's rather offensive to assume that a group of UX professionals decided to take on a massive overhaul just for fun. Not fun, but giving themselves work. Unfortunately, no UI team ever got rewarded for leaving a good product alone. They're hired to work, so they work. Anyone old enough has seen the quality of certain products peak and then decline, after the company just couldn't leave well enough alone, and ruined…

I used Office 2003 until I was forced to use Windows 10 for work at which point, despite my best efforts, was sufficiently incompatible, that I "upgraded" to Office 2010 which seems, I suppose, the least bad "modern" office version...

I still miss Office 2003, it was so much better than new versions

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#400

Post by lucideer »

neilpanchal wrote: post #383
lucideer wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for no real reason This happens but stating that the Jetbrains changes fall under this category is baseless speculation. > This part seems to be missing in the calculation What makes you say that? I don't think anyone commenting here is in any doubt that needless/bad UI changes do happen in products . Noone's debating that general broad point. The thesis put forward by the article is that Jetbrains' changes specifi…

I think these are reasons why UI has regressed continually in last 10-15 years. No one speaks up. Usually casted as “UI always changes, get used to it. Grumpy people will complain for any change. See Gmail.” I can understand why Apple changes UI: it’s a luxury/fashion company that makes computers and phones. But a professional tool needs to follow UI changes that are not justified beyond flimsy reasons? Used by milli…

I agree with everything you said, but I don't see how it's relevant to my comment, unless you misread me?

UI in general is regressed continually - completely agree with you there, yes.

The article however is specifically about Jetbrains. Jetbrains may be regressing their UI. Perhaps someone should spend some time looking at Jetbrains' new UIs and analyse whether it does in fact constitute yet another example of regressed UI.

This article doesn't do that - it makes a very lazy & exceptionally poor case.

Post reply on HN