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Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

neil.computer

361–370 of 420 posts

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#361
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t mind a UI refresh, it’s going to be just like the gmail refresh everyone hated it and now we’re all fine with it. We are not fine with it. It really sucks. It's just out of our hands. To this day I hate the gmail interface. It used to be so much better back in the day.

> We are not fine with it I actually really like it. I've been looking at IntelliJ for 8 years, the refresh is really very welcome XD. I also haven't noticed any lost functionality.

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Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#362
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shift shift -> Enter Presentation Mode. (Replace shift shift with whatever you have the “everything” search bound to).

Presentation mode is terrible for doing code pairing, code presentations, or really anything that involves screen sharing.

Presentation mode has worked well for me for code presentation for a decade both in-person on a projector and for screen sharing, across hundreds of talks. If you believe otherwise, let’s hear why rather than some kind of assertion that it must be true because you said so.

For the others… well, it’s not called screen sharing mode or code pairing mode.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UI refreshes are a funny thing. I remember avidly hating the look of YouTube when they removed all the borders from things. And now when I see the old version, it looks quite bad and the current one very good. It’s an uncomfortable feeling to see something new, and sometimes it genuinely is a step backwards, but I feel most of the time it’s progress and you get over it after a month.

Changed aesthetics are fine. Even when they suck you eventually get used to them. Changed functionality - which with UI refreshes often entails removal of more advanced or subtle features - is the killer. Designers who don't understand how products work in depth look at complexity they don't understand and decide nobody needs it if they personally don't get what it's for.

It is a problem even when it comes to aesthetics. Turning up the whitespace 300% makes things worse, it's not even just a subjective design choice.

The problem is precisely what you say: UI """designers""" don't make evidence-based decisons and don't do research or look for user feedback, they simply go with whatever they subjectively think best.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#365
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that they haven't already considered it? It's rather offensive to assume that a group of UX professionals decided to take on a massive overhaul just for fun. Given UX has never been a major priority at JetBrains, it implies that they decided it was valuable enough to spend the time and money on this. I just can't imagine this was done on a whim

I think you would be shocked at how often UX designers get greenlit to make a refresh based on vague things like the current code base being hard to use or keeping up with the Joneses of other products or just to have new marketing pictures that look "modern". The default assumption that this effort was made without proper consideration is right more often than its wrong. Maligning the devs? Not so much. Wanting them…

> I think you would be shocked at how often UX designers get greenlit to make a refresh based on vague things like the current code base being hard to use or keeping up with the Joneses of other products or just to have new marketing pictures that look "modern".

Not JetBrains, but I worked at a small app company that embarked on multiple UX re-dos for the vaguest of reasons. If your company has a charismatic VP of Design who has the CEO's ear, you're going to be spending your time on UX rewrites yearly. "It's not modern or sleek! It doesn't pop enough! We need to change our branding so it's fresher! Or, Users are confused with our current design! (without qualitative or quantitative user studies that show this)" It's never a measured attribute that they want to change. If you were a digital artist or interaction designer, you would have been able to build a great portfolio there in a matter of a few years.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#366

> - Rounding of corners. Religion at this point > - Homogenization. JetBrains wants to be like VSCode > - Animations. Haven't seen them but it will be filled Seriously, HN? This is the quality that you reward with hundreds of points? Unlike the author, I happen to have used this UI for the past five months and it solves many of my longstanding gripes with IntelliJ: - Gutters are now much better at highlighting local…

The central point of the article missed right over you. The critique is about the culture that surrounds: changes in UI for no real reason other than subjectivist opinions, design trends, fashion or what-others-are-doing, unoriginality, homogenization and frameworks, and the complete disregard for professional users and their infantilization.

Furthermore, changes need to be evaluated against retraining millions of people with new UI. This part seems to be missing in the calculation.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#367
Software companies have trained me to not update my software. By now, when an update for an application or OS is available, I assume the new version is worse, and am usually right. Either I'm going to lose some functionality that I relied on, the UX is going to get shuffled around on me, or it's just going to get bigger and slower on my old machine.

Instead of doing automatic updates, I delay updating until the company forces me to choose between updating and not using the software--and only then do I make the hard choice. I wish that every software would provide security updates on a separate track from the usual "UX rewrite" and "Feature cram" downgrades. That way, I can stay on the oldest version (the one that works the best), yet get critical security updates so I can use it safely.

Web software, too! Reddit is the obvious example, but everywhere they're changing for the sake of change and usually making it worse. For example, Vanguard (the brokerage) recently did a site-wide update. They basically removed lots of critical functionality (including the only thing I actually visit their web site to do regularly) and replaced it with whitespace and fluff. For a while, they let you remain on the old site. Then they made it more difficult to find the link to the old site. Finally I got an E-mail saying that they'd charge my account a fee unless I "migrated" my account to the new site. Talk about end-user hostility. Now I just call them on the phone to do my rollovers, likely costing them more money. Good job, morons.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#368
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - assign (scenario, subsystem, level, description) to breakpoints and watches, so they can be turned on/off or selected in groups for debugging without removal? In Jetbrain's tools they definitely can. I can * create a bunch of breakpoints * give them descriptions * only have them break on execution under certain conditions (conditions stated via the programming language being debugged, so `my_struct.some_func() ==…

Well, this is good to learn. I skimmed through intellij debugger docs before writing that comment and didn’t find anything like that. Thanks!

A screenshot showing the UI for this is https://resources.jetbrains.com/help/img/idea/2022.2/cl_brea... (from https://www.jetbrains.com/help/clion/using-breakpoints.html). Though that screenshot doesn't show the description field, which definitely exists on my CLion build.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#369

> - Rounding of corners. Religion at this point > - Homogenization. JetBrains wants to be like VSCode > - Animations. Haven't seen them but it will be filled Seriously, HN? This is the quality that you reward with hundreds of points? Unlike the author, I happen to have used this UI for the past five months and it solves many of my longstanding gripes with IntelliJ: - Gutters are now much better at highlighting local…

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Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#370

> - Rounding of corners. Religion at this point > - Homogenization. JetBrains wants to be like VSCode > - Animations. Haven't seen them but it will be filled Seriously, HN? This is the quality that you reward with hundreds of points? Unlike the author, I happen to have used this UI for the past five months and it solves many of my longstanding gripes with IntelliJ: - Gutters are now much better at highlighting local…

I’m glad someone else called this out. “I imagine it’ll suck but I haven’t used it, and they’re breaking the UI for the wrong reasons”. Such a quick transition from imagining someone doing something and then getting angry at your own imagination.

You can identify visual design changes just by looking at them... that's kind of the point
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