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EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

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Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#581

Post by ragazzina »

logicalmonster wrote: post #356
Deukhoofd wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law just makes it so that a single industry standard must be followed. Changing this standard is fairly easy, it just requires the European Commission to amend it. This means that if there's a better connector, USB-IF (being made up out of most of the people actually designing the hardware using it) can just release a new standard and get it approved. Edit: It's actually the Commission, not parliament that's allo…

> This means that if there's a better connector, What if there's more than 1 design in progress for a better cable and connector with competing tradeoffs? Designing stuff means picking the right tradeoffs. For instance, you could probably design a phone that is close to indestructible and has a battery that lasts for a month if you made it as big as a brick, but obviously nobody wants that. For cable connectors, ther…

>For cable connectors, there's all kinds of subtle tradeoffs that could be taken into account: data transfer speed, electricity transfer, size and weight of cable, how easy it is to connect and how secure it is when connected, its role in waterproofing, stability in heat and challenging environments, security, etc. >Are you really comfortable with some parliamentary committee vote picking between the right design tradeoffs?

Are you comfortable with the USB-IF picking between the right design tradeoffs?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#582

Post by vel0city »

tasuki wrote: post #544
emaro wrote: post #218

I agree with the overall tone in the comments here: yay in general, but what a shame a law needs to specify a specific port for ~iPhones~ devices. I really like USB-C. It's sooo convenient to charge my notebook, my headphones, my phone, my everything with the same cable. However what bothers me since someone pointed it out to me: for phones, which are used all day in all kind of situations, lightning has a big andvan…

> It's sooo convenient to charge my notebook, my headphones, my phone, my everything with the same cable. This really works for you? When I try charging my laptop with my phone cable/charger, it not only doesn't charge, but the laptop requires a hard reset to start turn on again. When I try charging my phone with my laptop cable/charger, it just doesn't charge. So while it's great in theory that everything is USB-C,…

It does for me. When I travel, I only travel with my laptop's USB-C power supply. That charges my phone, my laptop, my Switch, my wife's phone, her headphones, and her e-reader.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#583

Post by gempir »

saurik wrote: post #360
owisd wrote: post #250

Everyone upset about losing lightning. Apple will 'malicious compliance' this and keep the lightning port and just add a USB-C port that does charging and nothing else.

I am much more expecting them to do something like remove the port entirely and move to wireless charging only; or, for maximum humor value, make the lightning port incapable of charging the phone in Europe only, such that it isn't a charging port there and thereby isn't subject to the regulations (forcing only the people in Europe to use wireless charging).

As far as I understand the ruling they have to have a USB C port on their device that allows charging.

Removing the port entirely is not an option.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#584

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

schmuelio wrote: post #448
moffkalast wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly yeah, the standardisation part is fantastic but I absolutely hate that the industry at large settled on USB-C ports that are so pathetically easy to break it's hilarious. Micro-USB and Mini-USB were both far more robust. And also the part where there are a billion specs for the same cable so you never know what you're dealing with. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bluetooth team came up with the standa…

> Micro-USB and Mini-USB were both far more robust. Micro-USB and USB-C both have the same minimum durability ratings, you may just be buying non-compliant cables (or you're encountering selection bias or something): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Durability

>the newer Micro-USB[4] and USB-C receptacles are both designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal.

Micro-USB is an abomination from a durability perspective, and in no way does this reflect reality for the majority of Micro-USB plugs and sockets I've found in the wild.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#585

Post by jamesrr39 »

kalleboo wrote: post #489
scarab92 wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU could have mandated adoption of a certain connector for a certain period of time, rather than for all time. That way regulation provides the stick to force standardisation, but allows whatever new innovations develop later to have a chance at gaining a foothold. If we find ourselves in this situation again (with a single holdout) we can force the standardisation for a period of time again.

The EU regulation has a stipulation to re-visit the chosen standard at set intervals (IIRC 3 years?), it's not "for all time"

You are correct, every 3 years. From https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/6988... :

> Reporting: the Commission would be required to report to the Parliament and Council on the application of the directive regarding new charging technologies every three years, starting from three years after the date of entry into force of the directive (article 47(2a) RED). By the same date, it would also be required to report on the impact of the possibility to acquire devices without any charging device and cable (article 3a(1) RED).

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#586

Post by ploxiln »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #378
jayd16 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not incompatible. They make bootleg magsafe USB-C cables.

Beware, there is a lot of actual safety equipment that goes into a MagSafe connector that probably isn’t in the knock-offs. Moving 5 A of current can cause a spark and start a fire right in your lap. - http://www.righto.com/2013/06/teardown-and-exploration-of-ma... - http://www.righto.com/2016/03/counterfeit-macbook-charger-te...

You don't have to use a counterfeit charger with your after-market usb-c to magsafe-2 cable. I use it with a newer real apple charger with usb-c (... since this is an older magsafe-2 macbook, not a new magsafe-3 one, and I don't want to buy any more magsafe-2 non-detachable-cable chargers). The only downside is that it's a bit dumb and always tells the laptop it has 60W, so you need to use >= 60W usb-c charger, and your laptop will only use 60W of it.

That first link describing how magsafe 1/2 work is what convinced me it should be fine :)

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#587

Post by kalleboo »

PaulWaldman wrote: post #109

I wonder what the EU thinks of Tesla's charging port? Will all electric cars in the EU eventually be regulated into using J1772 ports without an adapter?

Tesla superchargers in the EU all use the standard CCS2 ports. Tesla model 3 cars in Europe have the standard CCS2 port instead of the Tesla port, the older models ship with adapters.

For car charging, the industry appears to be self-regulation well enough.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#588

Post by bee_rider »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #439
cyborgx7 wrote: post #318

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

There were no mandates to adopt micro-usb in the EU. As a sidetone it's astonishing how quickly a lie easily disprovable by publicly accessible information, in this case the EU's own website, can be spread around by people that otherwise seem like credible HN members.

Thank goodness, micro-usb kinda sucked, especially compared to USB-C (which seems quite good).

It is sort of weird that they decided to mandate USB-C rather than creating an ongoing group to keep track of charging and update the rules accordingly (like in the US, where many of our laws create an agency to regulate something rather than having congress pass a new, slightly different law every couple years)

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#590

Post by jen20 »

webmobdev wrote: post #341
vladvasiliu wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already buy non-Apple branded lightning cables. Apart from the cable that came in my iPhone 7's box many years ago (which still works perfectly and, excluding a little dirt, looks like new), all my other lightning cables are off-brand ones that cost much less than $20 apiece. More like 10. Some of them (Aukey brand) developed a wonky connection after a while, or only work on one side. The others (Amazon Basic…

> You can already buy non-Apple branded lightning cables. Lightening cables are not a standard and thus Apple dictates terms even with non-Apple lightening cables. As lightening cables are not an industry standard the prices are influenced by Apple and artificially inflated (even for non-Apple ones). And they can only be used with Apple devices. (Lightening cables have seen a recent price fall only after Apple shifte…

> since they can be used with multiple devices (due to such regulations) you need to buy fewer of them too.

I’ve seen this argument a few times “yay now I only have to take one cable on holiday”. Sure, unless you want to charge two devices at once while you’re sleeping, perhaps… it’s an unrelated argument to which connector is better.

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