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EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

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Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#351

Post by pimterry »

Krkrmfnfmmd wrote: post #335
cyborgx7 wrote: post #318

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

Government mandates on how you can charge your phone won't stifle innovation?

Yes, it won't. As parent points out, the EU previously mandated micro-usb support (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply) which worked fairly well, and hasn't stifled the innovation that's resulted in USB-C.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#352

Post by dogleash »

reaperducer wrote: post #340
cyborgx7 wrote: post #318

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable. I'm not sure I understand your logic here. Android phones were able to quickly move to micro USB because they weren't restricted from doing so by a government regulation. If there was a government mandate requiring phones t…

> If there was a government mandate requiring phones to have whatever connector came before micro USB, wouldn't that have prevented the Android phones from changing connectors/choosing the new innovation?

Dunno, we have a test case tho: how'd the Micro-B to USB-C transition go in EU markets?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#353

Post by rmccue »

skohan wrote: post #24
NextHendrix wrote: post #7

This gives me some cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, having a common connector will reduce waste and be much more convenient (eg "Hey have you got an iPhone charger?") and make losing a charger a cheaper mistake. On the other hand I'm not sure I like the idea of government mandating electrical connectors on devices, which could stifle innovation, or be very shortsighted in the typical government-rules-on-tech wa…

I am similarly of two minds. As an engineer, I can imagine how legal mandates for technology choices could stifle innovation and make the future of technology worse. But at the same time, I think there may be a place for mandating interface compatibility. To give some old-school examples, how differently might industrialization have gone if rail systems weren't mandated to operate under some shared standards? Or wher…

> To give some old-school examples, how differently might industrialization have gone if rail systems weren't mandated to operate under some shared standards?

I'm not sure that analogy holds particularly well. The UK did build rail systems without shared standards, and only standardised on gauge in 1846, which was very late in the industrial revolution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Gauge_War - Standards for other things like signalling also came late, and broad gauge was still in use until 1892. (Notably though, this did happen just at the turn of Railway Mania, so affected a lot of the new lines.)

Effectively, the UK let (mainly by omission, not intentionally) the solutions compete and then selected the most broadly used solution to standardise on.

(I'd love to see any scholarly research on this though; I haven't seen a huge degree of it. Obviously things are different outside of the UK, but given it's where (uncoincidentally) both the industrial revolution and railways were born, that's the clear case to look at.)

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#354

Post by [deleted] »

jorvi wrote: post #287
emaro wrote: post #218

I agree with the overall tone in the comments here: yay in general, but what a shame a law needs to specify a specific port for ~iPhones~ devices. I really like USB-C. It's sooo convenient to charge my notebook, my headphones, my phone, my everything with the same cable. However what bothers me since someone pointed it out to me: for phones, which are used all day in all kind of situations, lightning has a big andvan…

Quoted post unavailable.

[deleted]

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#355

Post by BiteCode_dev »

reaperducer wrote: post #340
cyborgx7 wrote: post #318

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable. I'm not sure I understand your logic here. Android phones were able to quickly move to micro USB because they weren't restricted from doing so by a government regulation. If there was a government mandate requiring phones t…

Micro usb was mandatory in europe for phones years ago.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#356

Post by logicalmonster »

Deukhoofd wrote: post #305
Night_Thastus wrote: post #279

I have no sympathy or love for Apple, but this seems wrong. Technology comes and goes, standards evolve and fall away as new ones arrive. I don't think the law has any place in deciding who uses what connector in this fashion. They can make an e-waste argument all they want, but it's nonsense. All it does is stifle future work on connectors and devices in general.

The law just makes it so that a single industry standard must be followed. Changing this standard is fairly easy, it just requires the European Commission to amend it. This means that if there's a better connector, USB-IF (being made up out of most of the people actually designing the hardware using it) can just release a new standard and get it approved. Edit: It's actually the Commission, not parliament that's allo…

> This means that if there's a better connector,

What if there's more than 1 design in progress for a better cable and connector with competing tradeoffs? Designing stuff means picking the right tradeoffs. For instance, you could probably design a phone that is close to indestructible and has a battery that lasts for a month if you made it as big as a brick, but obviously nobody wants that. For cable connectors, there's all kinds of subtle tradeoffs that could be taken into account: data transfer speed, electricity transfer, size and weight of cable, how easy it is to connect and how secure it is when connected, its role in waterproofing, stability in heat and challenging environments, security, etc. Are you really comfortable with some parliamentary committee vote picking between the right design tradeoffs?

And what if there's a connector that's slightly better than the existing one today, but you know that something that's clearly much better is ready in about 1-3 years? Can a parliament have the judgement needed to make the right engineering decision in the face of loads of political pressures?

Their choice has to be right because no market alternative would exist. Do you genuinely feel comfortable with this? I sure don't.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#357

Post by CubsFan1060 »

jld89 wrote: post #71
_trackno5 wrote: post #49

Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phone…

A LOT of less waste maybe ? It is very inconvenient and a hassle to have 5 different cables for 5 different devices. It is a waste of space, materials... The economic gains by volume continent wide should not be underestimated.

I will basically immediately throw away about a dozen cables and need to buy new ones. I'm unclear on how I'm gaining in this.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#358

Post by burlesona »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #316
_trackno5 wrote: post #49

Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phone…

Apple is part of the USB-IF. They also have pushed USB standards to consumers since the iMac. Hell, Apple participates of every single industrial forum they can benefit from. Apple has moved on to USB-C for almost every other product they have. They know Lightning is old and insufficient, even for their iPad Air. The only reason why Apple keeps Lightning around is for phones and some portable accessories, and the rev…

This is not the reason. The reason is, the last time they changed ports (from 30pin to lightning) it created huge blowback from consumers who had lots of 30pin accessories that were no longer compatible, and even though lightning is FAR better people don’t like switching.

USB-C is not much different than lightning for charging / connecting a phone, so the blowback from consumers will be huge when all their accessories are no longer compatible with the next phone.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#359

Post by pimterry »

skohan wrote: post #25
messe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t be too concerned. They did it before to standardise on micro USB, in such a way that didn’t stop manufacturers from moving to USB-C. This is really just an update of that same rule.

How did Apple dodge this with micro-USB?

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply - they included a dongle that allowed micro-USB charging of iPhones.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#360

Post by saurik »

owisd wrote: post #250

Everyone upset about losing lightning. Apple will 'malicious compliance' this and keep the lightning port and just add a USB-C port that does charging and nothing else.

I am much more expecting them to do something like remove the port entirely and move to wireless charging only; or, for maximum humor value, make the lightning port incapable of charging the phone in Europe only, such that it isn't a charging port there and thereby isn't subject to the regulations (forcing only the people in Europe to use wireless charging).
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