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Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

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Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#201

Post by ht85 »

nmz wrote: post #191
ht85 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The win11 / Edge bullshit finally pushed me to migrate my last win machine to linux. I used to love Windows, nowadays it just makes me bitter. Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. And the acquisitions... I've had countless minecraft sessions ruined because of microsoft account / store issues. Don't even get me started on realms and the chat policing bulls…

I used to solve this by just installing another launcher. there were some good ones around, they should still work I hope.

Yeah, for those interested PolyMC works well on linux. It's a bit rough around the edges, but a diamond nonetheless compared to the official launcher.

Another anecdote is that minecraft 1.19 doesn't work on Ubuntu 18, as it uses glibc 2.29. D:

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#202

Post by ht85 »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #161
ht85 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The win11 / Edge bullshit finally pushed me to migrate my last win machine to linux. I used to love Windows, nowadays it just makes me bitter. Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. And the acquisitions... I've had countless minecraft sessions ruined because of microsoft account / store issues. Don't even get me started on realms and the chat policing bulls…

> The win11 / Edge bullshit finally pushed me to migrate my last win machine to linux. I used to love Windows, nowadays it just makes me bitter. Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. Heh, try KDE's KRunner. I type 'kt' and it matches ktorrent. But if I type 'kto' it switches to matching "Des kto p 8". 'ktor' once again matches ktorrent.

Thank you, sorry my message was misleading, I was talking about the windows start menu. KDE / Gnome / Mate work as expected afaik!

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#203

Post by MichaelCollins »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #196
MichaelCollins wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The win11 / Edge bullshit finally pushed me to migrate my last win machine to linux. I used to love Windows, nowadays it just makes me bitter. Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. Heh, try KDE's KRunner. I type 'kt' and it matches ktorrent. But if I type 'kto' it switches to matching "Des kto p 8". 'ktor' once again matches ktorrent.

That's a common autocomplete behaviour. It's trying to be helpful. If you actually wanted ktorrent, you probably would have selected ktorrent on 'kt'. By typing another letter you're hinting you might want something other than ktorrent. Not sure if I agree with the behaviour, but I understand it.

I guess I get it, but it doesn't work well for me. By the time I recognize the ktorrent icon and hit enter, my fingers have already typed the next letter. With this system I have to deliberately pause pressing enter.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#204

Post by scarface74 »

kmeisthax wrote: post #167
dont__panic wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing that 20 years on, the USA has essentially given up on anti-trust tech regulation. Facebook acquired and repeatedly copied its closest competitors, no problem. Adobe buys up its competitors, no problem. Google aggressively pushes Chrome and fails to makes its own websites fully compatible with competitors, carry on. Apple refuses to give users the freedom to run their own apps on their purchased phones, no big…

In the 80s a bunch of federal judges adopted the "consumer welfare" standard, which argued that we should only consider antitrust violations that harm, well... consumer welfare. Since this was the 80s and Reagan-style free market rhetoric was in fashion, this became the new law of the land. Problem is, very few antitrust violations actually meet this standard, because most companies aren't buying other companies pure…

What happens to VC money once they can’t see a big exit via acquisitions? Look at how few YC companies have gone public.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#205

Post by ht85 »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #195
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if you define "forced" as "completely 100% impossible to avoid or prevent" then yes. But I think it's reasonable to say that "forced" is acceptable shorthand for "coerced by dark patterns in such a way that 99% of actual users will end up doing what the vendor wants whether they want to or not".

You get prompted once on Windows unless you use Edge again. I don't think that would be considered force either. Force would be like a prompt on every reboot or whenever you opened Firefox.

That's not true. Major patches all have some dialog full of dark pattern suggesting you browse with the most secure, bestest browser. Within the last year I've had multiple family / friends ask me how to get back to their normal browser, not knowing why Edge was now launching by default whenever they clicked a link.

Edge even has special behavior to show you the same bullshit when you try to download another browser [1] [2]. But no worries, they might get a slap on the wrist for it.

[1] https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-edge-chrome-2008/

[2] https://www.debugpoint.com/edge-messages-controversy/

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#206

Post by epolanski »

ht85 wrote: post #140
arnvald wrote: post #3

They're right, recently I've installed some Windows update for my parents and I had to reject like 5 suggested changes - installing Office trial, switching default browser to Edge yet again, and more. But this goes way beyond the browsers - I've never explicitly installed Keychain on my iphone and yet it shows as an option next to 1password every time I fill in a password field. Google calendar asks me to install an…

The win11 / Edge bullshit finally pushed me to migrate my last win machine to linux. I used to love Windows, nowadays it just makes me bitter. Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. And the acquisitions... I've had countless minecraft sessions ruined because of microsoft account / store issues. Don't even get me started on realms and the chat policing bulls…

Oddly enough I can't find a better programming environment nowadays than the win, wsl, powertools combo. I noticed the same about qbittorrent tho.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#207

Post by wolpoli »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #196
MichaelCollins wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The win11 / Edge bullshit finally pushed me to migrate my last win machine to linux. I used to love Windows, nowadays it just makes me bitter. Do you know typing "torrent" in the start menu doesn't find "qbittorrent"? In 2022. It sums it all. Heh, try KDE's KRunner. I type 'kt' and it matches ktorrent. But if I type 'kto' it switches to matching "Des kto p 8". 'ktor' once again matches ktorrent.

That's a common autocomplete behaviour. It's trying to be helpful. If you actually wanted ktorrent, you probably would have selected ktorrent on 'kt'. By typing another letter you're hinting you might want something other than ktorrent. Not sure if I agree with the behaviour, but I understand it.

That is a good explanation. The behavior is reasonable if we all type one character at a time, wait for the list of suggestions to update and stabilize, and review the list before typing the next character. Unfortunately, some of us are impatient and just type a bunch of characters at once. But I understand the type of audience the designers are going after.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#208

Post by Dracophoenix »

IshKebab wrote: post #103
scarface74 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The meme that MS lost the case about bundling IE with Windows is about as false and pervasive as “cable TV was once ad free”. MS won the case on appeal and absolutely nothing changed in the US. Even the cited Wikipedia article says as much. There was never a time since IE was bundled with Windows that IE didn’t come with Windows in the US. There was also no browser choice mandate in the US.

Not only that but barely anything changed in Europe either. They were required to show a browser choice screen... for 4 years. Only a tiny fraction of the population will have ever seen it.

I wouldn't say nothing. Europe and Korea respectively have, "N" and "KN"versions of Windows from XP onwards that unbundled Windows Media Player and other preinstalled apps.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#209

Post by rascul »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #170
tomComb wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google pushing their product while allowing anyone to easily change default browser on Android is called competition. Somehow though, that is the worst for you, while Apple simply blocking any competition on iOS (everything is Safari under the hood) is fine. The amazing thing is that you say you are a huge fan of engine diversity - exactly what Apple is totally blocking. Not much Firefox can do with their engine when…

My comment said nothing about Safari or iOS, and Google's pushing goes far beyond just Android. Using any Google product in a non-Google browser will trigger a "Download Chrome!" dialog, and that includes things like Google's search which practically everybody uses. It's even present in Gmail, Sheets, etc on iOS, where instead of using the default browser when tapping links it will show a chooser that includes Chrome…

> Using any Google product in a non-Google browser will trigger a "Download Chrome!" dialog, and that includes things like Google's search which practically everybody uses.

This has not been my experience. I even did a Google search for something random and could not find any "Download Chrome!" message anywhere (I'm using Firefox). I do remember some years back there was such a message somewhere on Google search, though. I wonder if maybe one of my uBlock Origin lists has it blocked.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#210

Post by speed_spread »

causality0 wrote: post #182
arnvald wrote: post #3

They're right, recently I've installed some Windows update for my parents and I had to reject like 5 suggested changes - installing Office trial, switching default browser to Edge yet again, and more. But this goes way beyond the browsers - I've never explicitly installed Keychain on my iphone and yet it shows as an option next to 1password every time I fill in a password field. Google calendar asks me to install an…

I wish I could just mail Microsoft a check and a note that says "I am not a tech ignoramus, stop treating me like your side bitch" and get the same Windows experience I was enjoying a decade ago.

You can't do that because it's not about money. It's about power.
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