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Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

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Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#51

Post by emkoemko »

ThatMedicIsASpy wrote: post #16
arnvald wrote: post #3

They're right, recently I've installed some Windows update for my parents and I had to reject like 5 suggested changes - installing Office trial, switching default browser to Edge yet again, and more. But this goes way beyond the browsers - I've never explicitly installed Keychain on my iphone and yet it shows as an option next to 1password every time I fill in a password field. Google calendar asks me to install an…

Go to Settings (Win+I) -> System -> Notifications & actions [ ] Show me the Windows welcome experience after updates ... [ ] Suggest ways I can finish setting up my device ... [ ] Get tips, tricks, ...

just use Linux you get none of this nonsense

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#52

Post by pasc1878 »

thewebcount wrote: post #26
dont__panic wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any chance that third party password managers like Bitwarden and 1Password will be able to implement add-ons and apps that replace this functionality, and that could open up migration paths? Or is the passkey future even worse than I feared?

This has existed for years. I use 1Password for all my passwords and it shows up as an option when entering or creating a password in any browser on iOS. Furthermore, all browser can access the keychain if the user authorizes it.

The operative word here is can.

Does Firefox use the keychain - on macOS it does not even try

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#53

Post by mhermher »

dralley wrote: post #22
bombcar wrote: post #9

Google Chrome is highly successful on Mac and Windows so it’s clear that Microsoft and apple aren’t forcing that hard. Mozilla is just not doing so hot.

Google Chrome: * Got years of free advertising real estate on the most visited website on the internet, but hid the ads if you were using Chrome already * Payed the likes of AVG, Avast, Adobe, Oracle and others to have their own software installers automatically install Chrome and make it the default browser unless you uncheck the boxes * Repeatedly leveraged nonstandard and Chrome-specific APIs (Polymer v0) on their…

Your second point is such a lost gem of history. I still remember it well and remember how upset it made me. But it seems the world has forgotten, and just assumes that Chrome just meteorically shot up in usage just on its merit.

Did you just update Java? Looks like a new browser you've never used is your default now.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#54

Post by smoldesu »

KerrAvon wrote: post #41
smoldesu wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that the government realized that FAANG makes for better bedfellows than sworn enemies. They can wave economic incentives in front of their face in exchange for international power beyond what other countries can offer. Having Google, Amazon, Apple and Microsoft under your thumb gives you control over ~80% of the internet and <95% of all PII. There is obviously a domestic interest in controlling that, so…

define "the government" -- who and what exactly is controlling this supposed policy?

Well, I guess the NSA makes the most sense. They've been integrated into the corporate structure of FAANG for over a decade now, and they're the primary government entity making demands over this stuff. The who is a lot harder to track down - maybe there is a Wizard of Oz hiding behind one of our administrative curtains, but I think it's more of a bureaucratic process. Judging by what we know about America's surveillance infrastructure (eg. XKeyscore, Tempora, Boundless Informant), it would make sense if most of this software is developed in-house and then passed off to FAANG to implement and obfuscate.

Again, all of this is conjecture. There's a lot of strangeness that surrounds the US intelligence agencies though, so I'm inclined to make some sense of it.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#55

Post by pjmlp »

spideymans wrote: post #40
andy_xor_andrew wrote: post #27

Does Firefox have a future? I'm writing this from Firefox, having used it ever since the days when Firefox releases used to have launch parties, and tabs was the revolutionary killer feature. Let me rephrase the question: does Gecko/Spidermonkey have a future? I think it's clear the Firefox branding will live on, since it is Mozilla's crown jewel. But in today's landscape, you can target WebKit (Apple) and V8/Blink (…

>Does Firefox have a future? Well, mobile is the future of computing. Does Firefox have a future on mobile? I think the answer is clearly no. Firefox will be relevant only until the Desktop PC paradigm fades into obscurity. Eventually Chrome and Safari will join Firefox in obscurity, as more content moves behind apps and walled gardens, and as the desktop paradigm falls into disuse. Give it 10 years.

Their soul will live on as Web widgets.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#56

Post by scarface74 »

somenameforme wrote: post #15

Without commenting on the claims, it's interesting to consider how times have changed. Microsoft originally lost an antitrust lawsuit [1] over little more than tying Internet Explorer into their OS and not readily including alternatives. They not only lost that case, but the initial judgement was that the company was to be broken up. Microsoft started spending dramatically more money on "lobbying" following that. [1]…

The meme that MS lost the case about bundling IE with Windows is about as false and pervasive as “cable TV was once ad free”.

MS won the case on appeal and absolutely nothing changed in the US. Even the cited Wikipedia article says as much. There was never a time since IE was bundled with Windows that IE didn’t come with Windows in the US. There was also no browser choice mandate in the US.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#57

Post by pjmlp »

ram4jesus wrote: post #13

The most recent W11 update turned on hypervisor on my machine, which I had off to be able to use Bluestacks 5. That config being on/off probably does not make that much money - yet Msoft decided to mess with my settings (not the first time this has happened in W11 and, were I to bet, not the last time either). Why wouldn't Msoft NOT force Edge as the default browser; a company could fill their coffers hugely if they…

Since Windows 10 plenty of security features rely on Windows actually running as a guest OS on Hyper V, like secure kernel and device guard, hence turning on the hypervisor.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#59

Post by jillesvangurp »

g_p wrote: post #12

One of the next frontiers as a barrier to browser switching will be "software"-backed WebAuthn/FIDO2/"passkeys". If you look at the APIs available on MacOS/iOS at present [0], and how WebAuthn works, you need to "trust" the client-side software to correctly identify the site origin (i.e. protocol, domain, port) and pass it to a physical security key. In the case of a software token, you need to restrict which app(s)…

As long that is true, it's also going to block widespread adoption of this stuff. Terrible usability is just not a great feature from a security point of view: it leads to people working around security measures.

I have to support some non technical people in our company once in a while. Trust me, this stuff is way too hard for normal people. People I know that own things like a ubi key are almost without exception IT professionals that know what they are doing. Outside IT professionals in IT departments, I don't know a lot of people that have much awareness of this stuff.

The trend in this space is to not have dependencies on dedicated hardware and use multi factor via phone apps and other things. It works, it's easy to explain to users. And lots of apps do this now. Google authenticator is still used but is increasingly positioned as a backup option to more user friendly alternatives.

WebAuthn is not a great success so far. It launched with a lot of fanfare a few years ago and then nothing much at all happened. In it's current form, that's not going to change any time soon.

Re: Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to use default browsers

#60

Post by themadturk »

birdyrooster wrote: post #32
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice if it disabled itself when another password manager is installed...

Many of us use more than one (especially shared use with work) and the default behavior seems correct.

I actually use both Keychain and LastPass. They are more or less in synch. I need LastPass (or at least another non-Keychain alternative) because I don't just work in the Apple ecosystem, but I use Keychain as well because it is very convenient when I'm on an Apple device.
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