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Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

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Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#341

Post by cb14 »

goto11 wrote: post #121

The headline is somewhat misleading. At least many in this thread have misunderstood the issue. Danish health authorities still recommend everyone to get vaccinated against COVID, including healthy people under 50. Everyone should get two jabs, everyone over 18 should get a third "booster" shot. The vaccine talked about in the OP are the fourth vaccine jab, i.e. second booster shot, which is only offered to above-50…

Danish health authorities still recommend everyone to get vaccinated against COVID, including healthy people under 50. Everyone should get two jabs, everyone over 18 should get a third "booster" shot. The vaccine talked about in the OP are the fourth vaccine jab, i.e. second booster shot, which is only offered to above-50 and people with certain heath issues.

That is not true. You just made that up didn’t you?

What is compelling you to spread misinformation?

It says this right on the linked page:

Vaccination of children against covid-19 Children and adolescents rarely become severely ill from the Omicron variant of covid-19.

From 1 July 2022, it was no longer possible for children and adolescents aged under 18 to get the first injection and, from 1 September 2022, it was no longer possible for them to get the second injection.

A very limited number of children at particularly higher risk of becoming severely ill will still be offered vaccination based on an individual assessment by a doctor.

So, no it is not recommended, because it is not even an option.

Does this sound like someone who would recommend what you said he would?

The director-general of Denmark’s Health Authority said that in retrospect injecting children with the Covid vaccine was a mistake.

Søren Brostrøm said while hosting “Go Evening Live” on TV 2: “In hindsight, we did not get much out of vaccinating the children. I want to look all parents of children who have vaccinated their child in the eye and say, ‘You did the right thing, and thank you for listening,’ ”

“But at the same time… and this is the important thing to maintain confidence… I will admit and say that we have become wiser and we would not do the same today. And we will not do that in the future either,” he added. Christine Stabell Benn, clinical professor at the University of Southern Denmark, has long been critical of the vaccination of children. She told TV 2 that she had no doubt that the recommendation to give the Covid vaccine to the age group 12-15 was unnecessary.

“We had some vaccines with a very unknown side effect profile, and at the same time we had some children who had nothing to gain by being vaccinated,” Stabell Benn told TV 2.

https://www.worldtribune.com/was-vaccinating-children-a-mist...

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#342

Post by simonh »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #176
simonh wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> arguably people should have been allowed to take their chances… I’m not aware of anyone being vaccinated by force. Of course the unvaccinated were excluded from social contact in various ways, but that’s just society protecting itself from them. If they still wanted to take the risks, they could and many did. That includes one of my Aunts. She caught Covid a few months ago and had a tough time but fortunately survi…

There was a year's worth of time where the booster could be produced but you could not get one if you wanted. It's annoying that vaccination is only ever recommended or forbidden.

Vaccination was not forbidden.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#343

Post by simonh »

concordDance wrote: post #218
simonh wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s plenty of evidence for a strong correlation between some opinions and mortality rates. There are probably in the region of 135,000 or more dead Americans who would probably be alive today if they’d not been persuaded to hold a particular opinion. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.02.10.22270823v...

Censoring anyone saying ageing is natural or not a disease or arguing against funding an anti-aging project would probably have an even bigger impact, but still seems like a bad idea.

It’s possible to imagine all sorts of problems we don’t actually have.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#344

Post by michaelmrose »

yawboakye wrote: post #207
michaelmrose wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There actually really isn't any difference between the two groups. They differ only in how they articulate the same bad logic. Vaccines became broadly available in relatively wealthy countries in 2021 wherein the only reasonable position would have been that vaccination of all groups would decrease net mortality even among those unlikely to die and reduce damage to people's bodies that we were already seeing even wit…

This reads as something written at the height of anger and frustration. Unless you’re a vaccine scientist/researcher, and unless you worked on/studied COVID vaccines, you’re parroting the position of experts: both on vaccines and on skepticism of vaccine effectiveness. Usually, in matters with very personal consequences, I don’t submit anyone’s position to the rigor of, say, a mathematical proof—irrationality is allo…

Re: parroting the positions of experts. How is that distinguishable from taking expert advice precisely. When I have a plumbing problem I take the expert advice of a plumber or a guide written by same unless I have good reason to doubt. Likewise with electricians, doctors and so forth. Given finite time and resources and not being able to bake a pie from scratch by inventing the universe I lean on the reasonable strategy of analyzing and synthesizing what experts have to say on a topic in order to decide on a course of action.

> Most people refusing the vaccine have either died or survived multiple infections.

Most people refusing to wear bulletproof vests into war zones have died or survived being shot at. This says nothing for the strategy whatsoever.

> I believe the individual has unquestionable sovereignty over such matter of life and death.

We were discussing whether there were reasonable antivaxxers who had arrived at their position through commendable means as opposed to ignorant folks who got their medical advice from facebook. People's right to refuse to participate in vaccination is an entirely different question.

> Likewise the vaccinated dead, either from COVID infection or vaccine complication.

It's easy to find millions of people killed by covid. Where can I find the number of people killed by the covid vaccine?

> Overall, it’s really quite simple to understand that different people view this life thing differently and make trade-offs accordingly.

Surely many things are very complicated with no clear answer. This doesn't appear to be one of them. Given the cardiovascular and lung damage apparent in even the majority of mild infections and the potentially progressive nature of repeated infection starting out vaccine naive seems to be a bad strategy for any age and one that could only have been arrived at by failing to attend to reality.

Its not intellectual laziness to attend to the body of work done by experts. It is what one does in fields in which one is not a subject matter expert. One acquires as much information as is available much of it surface level understanding and reads a variety of sources and what other sources say about those sources until you develop enough of an understanding do operate in the relevant space to the degree required to make decisions.

In this way one learns enough about automotive tech to select a good car, to drive it, and to keep it running between visits to the shop.It is entirely normal to do this without learning enough to rebuild the engine much less build or design one from scratch.

If one discovers someone else is commuting in an eastern European sedan of antique vintage which lacks seatbelts or airbags I will happily conclude without being an engineer that they are essentially "bad at picking cars" even if it comes to pass that they have what they believe is a very sophisticated understanding of engineering and can put their death trap together blindfolded.

It turns out that one doesn't need to be an engineer to read analysis that says that these two safety features are highly desirable and that they by choosing dangerous cars have chosen a notably bad strategy for not ending up a meat crayon.

> Given that your position is also the position of the majority, I wonder at all if “intellectually incapable” should be used here. The majority is provably the intellectually incapable.

Ya people are stupid but it doesn't follow that what the majority does is necessarily stupid because the majority does it ergo being a contrarian doesn't perforce make you clever either. Claims should be evaluated on their own merit.

The claim that vaccines are more dangerous than covid seems not only unfounded but unworthy.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#345

Post by netsharc »

canoebuilder wrote: post #321
netsharc wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, you link to (your) "actual facts": a few short sentences, and a demand based on one graph. Plus speculation (no details though) that the vaccine is interacting with Omicron. A title with a demand in all caps. Yay for facts, and not emotions! For the obtuse: the last sentence was sarcastic. Give me a long detailed scientific paper and then maybe it's worth considering.

The “actual facts” are the numbers represented in the graph. (My bad, I thought that would be clear) The shots were sold as “If you get this shot you won’t get the virus” but apparently people still are getting the virus. And not just getting the virus, but dying from it. And dying from it in greater numbers than before the shots! WTF is up with that?! Clearly the shots don’t work as they were supposed to. And they a…

Sorry, that is poor application of the scientific method. The blogger - and you - have made hypotheses, and conclude (the page:) "How can anyone view this chart as evidence of anything except - at best - complete vaccine failure?" and (you:) "Clearly the shots don’t work as they were supposed to.". You've concluded these things because emotionally that's what you want to happen, because (I'll assume) you're afraid[1] of the vaccine.

From 1 screenshot graph! Is that all the data you need to draw your conclusions? Is the graph even real, or is a graph from a random blog good enough because it supports your viewpoint? (Let's be honest, "both sides" have this deficiency; "This PNG supports my viewpoint, I'm right!"). Let's see the vax rates (to me the page is trying to trick people by presenting "Over 95% are vaccinated" but that's for people over the age 50. Let's see the rate of "returning to normal" and partying and mingling by people who think since they were vaxxed 6 months ago they were safe.

> And they are preventing people from being born. Birth rates are way down in mRNA injected countries.

Oooh... it must be the vaccine! How about the fact that there's been economic instability since the pandemic? Nah: mRNA introduced, birth rates down, must be mRNA!

Look, birth rates have been down since 2007, oh, must be Bill Gates' time machine: https://www.aei.org/economics/the-reasons-for-americas-birth...

Sorry if you're insulted, but geez, either this comment slaps some sense into you (here I am fighting against a windmill) that you're an idjit who needs to be more scientific about his way of thinking, or you're just going to reaffirm your beliefs, because it's more comforting to think that you have a clue and everyone else are the idjits[2]. A toast to that!

[1] Yeah TBH it's a foreign substance, I don't know what liquid they injected into me, at the end of the day I had my faith in the scientists making and checking the vaccine, just like we all put faith that the burger we're eating have been checked properly - by whoever is in charge for checking those things - for mad cow and other diseases.

[2] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont... - Yes, arguably your "facts" won't change the minds of "I have faith in the vax" people either...

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#346

Post by peteradio »

throwntoday wrote: post #265
noir_lord wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So 40% efficacy IF WELL MATCHED to virus That's a disingenuous reading of the thing you just quoted. It's 40% to 60% if well matched - assuming that that the range is evenly distributed then the middle point is 50% not 40% and reducing overall risk of flu by 50% is a good thing since flu is much more a killer of the old and young (usually - there have been exceptions, 1918 Flu (aka Spanish Flu) killed younger peopl…

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but is it not 40-60% effective if well matched and 0% effective otherwise? Flu shot efficiacy is typically under 50% so if they guessed the wrong strains you happen to be exposed to that season it is totally worthless. There seems to be a common misconception that it will somehow help you even if they guessed the wrong ones but I'm not sure why that is so prevalent. If there are 5 viruses…

> https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2017/02/studies-...

Some years it nets highly negative efficacy depending on your previous years vaccination (see 2014 flu).

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#347

Post by samuel »

michaelmrose wrote: post #339
samuel wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm playing the devil's advocate and I'm not very comfortable with it, but I think it' valuable to the discussion to do so. You are oversimplying and again conflating both groups. You assume people made their mind first and then looked for experts' to support which it's not fair to a lot of them. Let's focus on an specific case. A healthy 25 years old male living in on of those countries. If he's an skeptic and decid…

One gets myocarditus from covid and even mild cases in healthy young people commonly show damage from covid which isn't true of vaccination. Furthermore its reasonable to suppose that decreasing chance of infection decreases chance of spread which effects your 60 year old with hypertension which probably exists in most exists in most people's peer,friend, or family group and would really rather not die.

Fair enough, but you are comparing a sure event (if you decide to get the vaccine) and a contingent one (getting covid). It's impossible to declare any of both as a clear winner. Furthermore the risk difference is negligible when compared to daily activities (like driving or making the dinner).

One of the problems here, and the source of a lot of trouble it's that sending nuanced messages it's very hard and goverments feared that being cautious could affect negatively to vaccination rates. So they took the simplistic path of presenting the vaccines as a silver bullet for everyone (and they were but in a very varying degree).

I can understand that decision but at the same time, it has thrown a lot of fair "skeptics" under the bus.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#348

Post by johnchristopher »

version_five wrote: post #73
nope96 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adversaries of the west want us to be unvaccinated and sick. Knowing what we know about "troll farms", I would not be surprised if there is an effort by some states to discredit the vaccine on English speaking forums.

It's really funny to see this kind of covid hero discussion where one accuses people who aren't ok with vaccine policies of being "conspiracy theorists" (ignoring the difference between disagreement with compelled vaccination and believing in some imagined conspiracy) and then getting a reply theorizing that there is a conspiracy amongst "adversaries of the west" that's driving disagreement with authoritarian vaccine…

I sat with people who told me they were hesitant to vaccinate, that they heard different things left and right and didn't know what to do and would wait until it was mandatory to decide if they would get the vaccine or not. This went on for months. I didn't push them to vaccinate or anything like that, I decided it was better to keep quiet about it and maintain the relationship. Then one day I realized they were gaslighting me, organizing protests against covid measures and to regain their right to party, circulating fake news among themselves about how our government head was running pedophile ring and how the deaths were fake. etc., when suddenly they shouted at me how the government was making their life hell on purpose. I cut them off. I realized there were strong parallels with the behavior of cult members I knew long ago. They lie. They lie to appear open-minded, hesitant. Like random Chinese posters discussing alternate interpretation of Tien An Men ("it was a western fabricated lie!" "ah thanks, I never thought about that and it's intriguing, thanks for offering a more reasonable interpretation". Now when I smell someone is using the same tactics I flip off. But on HN I am not even bothering anymore. Conversations about long covid looks like conversation with covid deniers from two years ago and it almost always end up in dictionary/akshually cherry-picking battle.

All that to say that, yeah, I believe there's a lot of conspiracy theorists among people who aren't OK with Covid vaccine policies.

/rant

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#349

Post by switch007 »

kseistrup wrote: post #340
switch007 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... travel restrictions, quarantine on arrival, social distancing, school and workplace closures, mask wearing, surface disinfection, and enhanced hand hygiene So to eliminate influenza we just need to destroy the economy, restrict travel, force people to pay $1000s in quarantine, cover our faces and close schools and office. And ignore all the negative consequences of that. Got it. Your comment "almost vanished be…

I feel you're just being overly pedantic here. Surely those links are not the end of the story, they were just links that I could find very quickly. I'm sorry that they don't match your expectations. I am also sorry that you don't like the “we don't need to accept”. I merely meant that we should have learned by now that we can avoid lots of influenza infections by very simple means, of which improved hand hygiene is…

I'm bothered by your ignoring the cost and consequences of eliminating influenza. You mention hand hygiene but the reality is - by admission of the links you yourself provided - that it's much more than that. As if washing our hands is what led to the severe reduction of influenza, and not gigantic changes in our society such as banning travel, banning socialising, closing offices, closing schools etc! At huge, huge cost.

Re: Denmark not offering second Covid booster shot to healthy adults under 50

#350

Post by cb14 »

dang wrote: post #318
goto11 wrote: post #121

The headline is somewhat misleading. At least many in this thread have misunderstood the issue. Danish health authorities still recommend everyone to get vaccinated against COVID, including healthy people under 50. Everyone should get two jabs, everyone over 18 should get a third "booster" shot. The vaccine talked about in the OP are the fourth vaccine jab, i.e. second booster shot, which is only offered to above-50…

Yikes, that is not somewhat misleading, that is extremely misleading (assuming your comment is accurate—I haven't dug through the article). I've edited the title now. Submitted title was "Denmark no longer offering Covid vaccinations to healthy adults under 50". That title was highly editorialized, which breaks the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html : " Please use the original title, un…

I don’t think the original title was misleading. It says on the page:

Who will be offered vaccination against covid-19?

People aged 50 years and over will be offered vaccination.

People aged under 50 who are at a higher risk of becoming severely ill from covid-19 will also be offered vaccination against covid-19.

It doesn’t say people under 50 who have had 2 or fewer shots.

The comment you responded to seems to be a partial if not total fabrication.

I don’t see indication of any sort of “roll over eligibility”.

And I don’t think the official recommendation would be 2 shots for everyone since the linked page clearly states it is no longer offered for under 18s, and Søren Brostrøm, director of the health authority, saying it was a mistake to give it to any under 18s, and if you read between the lines and look at the data it was probably a mistake to give it to any under 50s.

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