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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#651

Post by Febra33 »

bioemerl wrote: post #635
Febra33 wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no mob rule. A private company decided to stop servicing that filth because it would hurt their profits. There's nothing freer than this.

This is mob rule, private companies do nothing but appeal to whatever they have to in order to make money, and to rely on them for control of our basic ability to have a platform is incredibly harmful and you should not support it. There are some powers which should not be in the hands of corporate executives, this is one of them. There are also times that it wouldn't be mob rule, those times should be shareholder ru…

So you're telling me that companies shouldn't have full control over their operations and products and that the government should limit them in that aspect?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#652

Post by cauefcr »

YorkshireSeason wrote: post #419
bitwize wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some trans people, the alternative is no gender-affirming care at all, which tends to lead to bad health outcomes (e.g., suicide). To be trans is to live on the edge of the law and on the very cutting edge of biopunk medical science. A lot of shit is off-off-off-label, where there are no guarantees of quality, but something is better than nothing which is what you'd get if it were up to your parents and doctors.

The alternative is the come to terms with one's sexuality, just like everybody else. In other words, in most relevant cases here, to come out as a gay man.

"Can you just not be confusing and ignore what you want to do with your life? That would mean the world to me."

This is what you said.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#653

Post by ivraatiems »

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #646
ivraatiems wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying people should be allowed to DDoS anyone, including Kiwi Farms, from a legality perspective. Illegal things are still illegal. I am saying that companies which provide protection services shouldn't extend them to Kiwi Farms because they are societally not worth protecting.

Thats right - the fire departments should just stop protecting the houses of people you dislike so folks can burn them down in peace.

Fire departments are government agencies. I don't know how to be clearer about this: Government doesn't get to discriminate based on speech. Private entities do.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#654

Post by ranger_danger »

cauefcr wrote: post #428
mhuffman wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>3 people are dead because of that site How many people are dead because of twitter/facebook/tiktok stalking, arguments, etc?

Were any of them made _for_ stalking/doxxing/harassing? It's a totally different ballpark.

it's not made for illegal activities, it's made for discussion and making fun of people. rhetorical hyperbole (e.g. "Bob is a big fat idiot") is protected speech and the site owner routinely fights this in court and wins every single time.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#655

Post by leereeves »

DuskStar wrote: post #300
leereeves wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The Germans came for the Nazis. The Weimar Republic was very much in favor of imprisoning them for their (detestable) ideals and proposals. The Nazis were able to parlay this persecution (and Weimar failures) into an increasing share of the electorate and eventually total control.

Also untrue. The leader of the Weimar Republic appointed Hitler Chancellor of Germany in 1933.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#656

Post by terminatornet »

philippejara wrote: post #454
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the future of the internet seems pretty sad... That’s frankly terrible. Sites infamous for promoting harassment can’t be hosted anymore. Clearly a tremendous loss for the internet. /s

This is not reddit, calm down on the snark and try to actually have a discussion if you're gonna go for it. Its easy to say those things for someone you dislike, but zoom out and look at the implications, you have a campaign pretty much asking cloudflare to stand aside and allow them to do DDOS attacks on a website which apparently won several lawsuits against them already(ill dig up the sources a bit later on when I…

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#657

Post by mikl »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #543
mikl wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DDoS’ing is quite different from just turning your back on someone. It’s more akin to following someone around with a megaphone and shouting over everything they say so no one can hear them. Sure, you might celebrate when that’s done to someone you dislike, but a lot less appealing if you imagine it done to a cause you agree with.

Cloudflare and DDoS-Guard aren’t themselves DDoSing KF, though. They are just turning their backs. If KF wanted their continued protection, they could have stopped stalking and harassing people. But they didn’t, so here we are. And of course I wouldn’t be happy if a website I support were DDoSed. It’s perfectly consistent to celebrate when a murderer gets convicted and be outraged when an innocent person does. There’…

No one’s saying they are. But Cloudflare enjoys a virtual monopoly on affordable and reliable DDoS protection, and that is a very unhealthy thing for the open Internet. If you operate an online business and your comptetitors can somehow convince Cloudflare to drop you, they can have you taken offline, permanently, by paying a pittance to have you DDoS'ed.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#658

Post by judge2020 »

phantom_of_cato wrote: post #624
judge2020 wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, if Twitter et al. want to provide the tools to block arbitrary content, they can do that just fine - companies can speak with the police and follow their wishes regardless of the first amendment because Twitter's own protected speech allows them to block any content for any reason, whether that be "it violated our content on harassment" or "the police don't like it and we're voluntarily following their wish…

> companies can speak with the police and follow their wishes regardless of the first amendment because Twitter's own protected speech allows them to block any content for any reason, whether that be "it violated our content on harassment" or "the police don't like it and we're voluntarily following their wishes". Even if that wasn't against the First Amendment (which is a more complicated issue [1]), that wouldn't f…

Companies generally already do this with non-FISA "National Security Letter Requests" - Apple received between 1 and 499 between January and June 2021[0], and Google received between 500 – 999 in the same time frame[1].

Of course, this is nothing like allowing arbitrary content censorship in collaboration with law enforcement, which would indeed trigger a lot more outrage and bad PR.

0: https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html

1: https://transparencyreport.google.com/user-data/us-national-...

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#659

Post by ChicagoDave »

_vvaw wrote: post #548
ChicagoDave wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the entire history here, but my understanding is that KF was a forum where doxing and swatting was openly pervasive. Sounds like a perfect example of society holding a site accountable and producing the correct outcome. There was no government involved, so it's not a "free speech" issue. I always talk about the wild west of the late 90's when the Internet was brand new. My colleagues and I all talked abo…

In terms of SWATing, harassment, and "driving people to suicide" this is a false impression, one that is intentionally spread by the site's detractors. SWATing and harassment is strictly banned on Kiwi Farms. The site owner aggressively removes such posts and cooperates with law enforcement. The leader of the campaign to take down Kiwi Farms is Keffals, a transsexual Twitch streamer with a large underage audience. Ki…

Got five kids. If any of them were trans, I'd support them connecting with whatever community they could find. Some people were born into the wrong body and most kids know it immediately. The dysphoria can happen early. I'm sure there are some kids that make mistakes and try hormone therapy because they think it will make them feel better. The list of reasons they might do this are long and many are related to abuse or depression.

How about we stop labeling people pedophiles and support people (even kids) finding their truth.

I'd also firmly believe all transgender adults would be _horrified_ by any type of abuse. You're going to find an outlier in there as with any statistic. But like 99.9999% of all transgender adults come from a position of empathy and support. To assume otherwise is you just pushing your idea of morality on other people.

Of course if you simply refuse to believe in the idea that someone could be gay or bi or trans (and be certain of it at a young age), that's an entirely different conversation. Kids know who they are. We're supposed to guide them. Not oppress them.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#660

Post by dane-pgp »

nickdothutton wrote: post #576

I’m continually surprised that Facebook, Twitter, and the rest dont simply create a web interface for law enforcement that allows them to delete (or more likely make invisible) content they want to censor. Noting in place of the post or tweet or whatever “law enforcement in your jurisdiction has deemed this post illegal and have hidden it for your safety”. There’s a culture war afoot, the government wants to insert i…

I made a similar suggestion a couple of years ago[0] on a discussion about Google banning a podcasting app ("after 9 years for letting users play podcasts that reference COVID-19").

Of course it's a terrible idea (which might be why you're being downvoted) but that's the point. If we don't want governments deciding (in secret, without due process) which apps and accounts and pages to censor, then we shouldn't be comfortable with a situation where a handful of unrepresentative CEOs (who might all share the same politics, and golf together, in a foreign jurisdiction relative to most of their users) have an equally big narrative-controlling effect on multiple societies.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23230550

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