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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#351

Post by nathanaldensr »

antiufo wrote: post #290
irthomasthomas wrote: post #273

I didn't know about this site until yesterday. After reading the thread that got them took down, I know one thing, I will not be letting my children near discord. I mean, if this is how people act in public[0], I hate to imagine what kind of stuff they are doing in a private discord, away from parents prying eyes. There's no heroes in this story. [0] Bathtub hormones being sold to minors in bright packaging featuring…

Trans woman here, both 1) access to HRT for minors and 2) HRT without medical/parental gatekeeping are widely supported positions in the trans community (which I also endorse). Rationale for 1. It's widely supported by the medical community and by scientific studies, and helps improve the quality of life of people with gender dysphoria. Rationale for 2. Gatekeeping traditionally consist in telling a psychiatrist anec…

Your post, even with its edits, is gross. However, I must thank you for providing your words so that I may show my own two children about the dangers of belief systems such as yours.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#352

Post by ceejayoz »

colpabar wrote: post #288
ceejayoz wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Speech is ingrained in American culture on both aisles of the political spectrum until last 5-10 years. Death threats, fraud, harassment, libel, and other harmful forms of speech have had legal consequences for much longer than that.

This has been said many times in all of these threads, but the operator of the site has always been very clear that he will comply with all legal subpoenas he is served. He condemns death threats and really anything that isn’t just pointing and laughing. The reason this is a big deal to some is because there was no legal procedure at all. If the site was so obviously guilty as some are claiming, why hasn’t anything b…

Also said many times in all these threads: Getting law enforcement to act on these sorts of things is a difficult game, and a lengthy one even if you get very lucky.

Meanwhile, victims can face years of harassment while they wait for a bored cop to get a "yep, they used Tor" conclusion to the case.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#353

Post by tyrust »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #273

I didn't know about this site until yesterday. After reading the thread that got them took down, I know one thing, I will not be letting my children near discord. I mean, if this is how people act in public[0], I hate to imagine what kind of stuff they are doing in a private discord, away from parents prying eyes. There's no heroes in this story. [0] Bathtub hormones being sold to minors in bright packaging featuring…

> I didn't know about this site until yesterday.

It's interesting that your takeaway in light of this knowledge is a strategy that totally misses keeping your children away from the forum responsible for three suicides [0].

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms#Suicides_of_harassm...

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#354

Post by bitwize »

objclxt wrote: post #322
antiufo wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trans woman here, both 1) access to HRT for minors and 2) HRT without medical/parental gatekeeping are widely supported positions in the trans community (which I also endorse). Rationale for 1. It's widely supported by the medical community and by scientific studies, and helps improve the quality of life of people with gender dysphoria. Rationale for 2. Gatekeeping traditionally consist in telling a psychiatrist anec…

> HRT without medical/parental gatekeeping are widely supported positions in the trans community It's a widely supported position of the trans community that minors should have access to home-made HRT without any quality control or regulation? Because honestly, I feel like if you're taking hormone replacement therapy you want some kind of guarantee of quality.

For some trans people, the alternative is no gender-affirming care at all, which tends to lead to bad health outcomes (e.g., suicide).

To be trans is to live on the edge of the law and on the very cutting edge of biopunk medical science. A lot of shit is off-off-off-label, where there are no guarantees of quality, but something is better than nothing which is what you'd get if it were up to your parents and doctors.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#355

Post by YorkshireSeason »

antiufo wrote: post #290
irthomasthomas wrote: post #273

I didn't know about this site until yesterday. After reading the thread that got them took down, I know one thing, I will not be letting my children near discord. I mean, if this is how people act in public[0], I hate to imagine what kind of stuff they are doing in a private discord, away from parents prying eyes. There's no heroes in this story. [0] Bathtub hormones being sold to minors in bright packaging featuring…

Trans woman here, both 1) access to HRT for minors and 2) HRT without medical/parental gatekeeping are widely supported positions in the trans community (which I also endorse). Rationale for 1. It's widely supported by the medical community and by scientific studies, and helps improve the quality of life of people with gender dysphoria. Rationale for 2. Gatekeeping traditionally consist in telling a psychiatrist anec…

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#356

Post by MichaelCollins »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #41
viraptor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My headcanon is that Price wanted to take a stand, but the legal team actually took a better look at the situation because of the pressure and had a long meeting, explaining to him why it's a really bad idea. I hope we learn what really happened in a few years. Reason: twice I sent messages directly to appropriate teams at (large-companies) with something like "are you aware of what your ceo is doing at (link)" which…

Didn't he previously say he took down the nazi site because they were saying that the reason they weren't taken down was that he agreed with them? That provides the sort of decision making process. Also, I find it hard to believe that a legal team would all of a sudden decide 3 days after they publically announce they wouldn't remove security services from a customer that one customer who has basically been the same…

> Didn't he previously say he took down the nazi site because they were saying that the reason they weren't taken down was that he agreed with them?

And about that decision, he said this:

> Let me be clear: this was an arbitrary decision. It was different than what I’d talked talked with our senior team about yesterday. I woke up this morning in a bad mood and decided to kick them off the Internet. I called our legal team and told them what we were going to do. I called our Trust & Safety team and had them stop the service. It was a decision I could make because I’m the CEO of a major Internet infrastructure company.

> Having made that decision we now need to talk about why it is so dangerous. I’ll be posting something on our blog later today. Literally, I woke up in a bad mood and decided someone shouldn’t be allowed on the Internet. No one should have that power.

https://gizmodo.com/cloudflare-ceo-on-terminating-service-to...

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#357

Post by bioemerl »

throwayyy479087 wrote: post #312
phillipcarter wrote: post #289

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. Good to see it.

Freedom of speech for speech you hate is also a social principle - see the ACLU Klan cases. Principles aren't supposed to be easy to keep, otherwise they're hobbies.

I don't understand how anyone reading someone saying something like this doesn't immediately picture some government organization with an authoritarian leader holding the exact same value while considering dissenters a harm to their society.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#358

Post by yanderekko »

TOMDM wrote: post #326
weare138 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 people are dead because of that site. What they were doing was a crime. Criminal activity is not is not protected free speech. That's like arguing carding and SIM swapping sites are just expressing their right to free speech and should be protected.

How are three people dead because of KF? Not concern trolling, a google search only turned up a kiwifarms thread that _could_ have been relevant, but is now obviously inaccessable.

People who have threads on KiwiFarms have (allegedly) committed suicide. That's about all that's required to attribute each death causally to KiwiFarms. It's an incredibly weak standard.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#359

Post by cowtools »

fullstop wrote: post #92
nemo44x wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is hate speech? Was Charlie Hebdo hate speech? Rushdie? A lot of people certainly think so. I see hate speech across nearly every internet platform including this one. There’s no shortage of hate speech against wealthy people or white men, etc. Is that allowed?

I'm not here to define hate speech, and I think that you'd agree that HN was not designed to encourage and promote hate speech. You absolutely can not say the same thing of Kiwifarms. Let's not be deliberately obtuse here.

So you want to enforce restrictions on hate speech, but you have no clear boundary as to what "hate speech" really is?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#360

Post by johnklos »

drexlspivey wrote: post #235
weare138 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 people are dead because of that site. What they were doing was a crime. Criminal activity is not is not protected free speech. That's like arguing carding and SIM swapping sites are just expressing their right to free speech and should be protected.

What doesn’t make sense to me is why is Cloudflare harassed for providing an utility to some bad actors while other traditional providers aren’t? Is Comcast getting any flak for providing internet to the KKK offices? Or their water provider? Is Netflix getting any complains for providing entertainment to terrorists? Or vodafone for mobile connectivity? Why is it different for cloudflare?

It's because Cloudflare actively protects these bad actors. They host DNS, they host proxy services, and they hide identifying information from WHOIS. They say they won't listen to anything short of a court order, so now we have to convene juries and get indictments to get Cloudflare to do anything at all.

Cloudflare is playing a big game.

Comparing Cloudflare protecting bad actors to the water company providing water to KKK members is completely disingenuous, but you know that, obviously. You should pick better examples.

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