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Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

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Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#81

Post by p_l »

mrcheesebreeze wrote: post #30
buscoquadnary wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it looks like this mine produces coal which I am assuming is used for power generation. Don't know if I can blame them for not shutting it down while the message coming from the rest of Europe is that everyone's going to be doing an IRL game of Frostpunk this winter.

what do you expect? The european union is widely known for strange and impractical decisions. A few of its members basically drag the rest along for bad decisions and the smaller guy follow because they need that sweet sweet eu money.

In this case it wasn't "strange or impractical" decision - the mine endangered water table on Czech side of the border. Czech Republic protested expansion unless Poland funded some minor work to ensure access to water was unimpeded.

The incompetents in the government decided that negotiation, or the way lower than the dien cost of fixing water pipeline for few villages, was beneath them.

The ECJ injunction was about stopping the expansion when, as matter spanning the border, the case was taken to court.

Once again politicians decided to... Ignore the injunction, which resulted in a fine, and finally the fine was taken from funds that would otherwise go to Poland.

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#82

Post by p_l »

orangepurple wrote: post #48
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Poland is widely hated by its neighbors I'd say, "the current right-wing government is widely hated by most of its citizens." The mine case was just one of the many cases when they showed their glaring incompetence. I mean, they could have solved the problem a long time ago but by their arrogance decided to ignore it, then the case went to court and they had to do it anyway and pay a nice sum of money. Everybody is…

Regardless of your position on the government the coal mine must stay open to preserve energy independence for Poland

The money it would have cost to work with Czech government original request ("ensure that water supply for those villages is not lost") is less than the fines levied by court even without adding it late fines.

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#83

Post by end_of_line »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #80
end_of_line wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Czech people hate Polish and that's fact. However, regarding this brown coal mine, czech coal mines are very nearby and these ones are not toxic / dangerous to the environment? Sure, they are and my father took part in installing early warning system on many rivers coming from czech as they are being constantly polluted by them. Of course, when czech do it, it's completely fine

> Czech people hate Polish and that's fact. No, this is just your opinion. Even the new Polish ambassador in Czechia, chosen by the current right-wing government, very openly said that the behavior of the Polish government was stupid and he doesn't understand it, because it could be solved easily straight away. And instead of listening to him, they started to shout "Treason!" all over Twitter and finally they dismiss…

So stop mining damn coal!!! You didn't answer the damn question - how it looks like when German and Czech coal mines keep mining without any issues? Please, explain me this. Germans keep restoring coal mines because of lack of gas and you damn say that's there is some opinion? I've lived more than 18 years less than kilometer to the czech border and my father had to install the early warning system on the river flowing from Czech side because it was being constantly polluted. https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C4%9Bl%C3%A1_(p%C5%99%C3%ADt...

So please anwer the damn question and stop saying idiotic statements until you answer it.

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#84

Post by p_l »

blueflow wrote: post #51

The same contract (2+4) that excludes any further reparations is also the contract that says that reunified Germany will not make territorial claims to Pommerania and Silesia. I'm not sure if Poland has the high ground in this.

It's all a distraction from other topics

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#85

Post by ralusek »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #79
soco wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was so widely hated how come it got reelected?

They are the first government that openly buys votes. They focus on their core groups, that is mainly elderly people, and promise them money if they vote for them, at the same time scaring them saying that if they vote for the opposition, this money will be taken away. It is one of the main reason that in spite of universal hatred they still have 30% support, mainly from the elderly.

If giving financial incentives to voters is buying voters, they're certainly not the first government that openly buys votes.

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#87

Post by enviclash »

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #68
seiferteric wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like maybe that section of the border was specifically carved out to include the mine maybe?

Incredibly, this isn't actually true, though it's tempting to think so from looking at the shapes on the map. The border actually follows the Lusatian Neisse, and then the Oder river, except in the vicinity of the port city of Szczecin; this is the border set by the Allies at the Potsdam Conference after the end of World War 2. The mine on the eastern side of the river became Poland, but it was still supplying a powe…

The book "Diplomacy" has a precious chapter about two Oder rivers and Stalin fooling the West by picking the most western Oder for the German-Polish border, where nowadays a lot of people has multiple heritages.

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#88

Post by jll29 »

988747 wrote: post #78
SapporoChris wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Poland for eight months recently. I saw evidence all around that they very well remember their holocaust. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Poland There are plenty of crowded museums with long lines of people waiting to get in. There are plenty of monuments, and there is plenty of anger. However, please enlighten me. I would be interested in evidence of a distant or non-existent memory of 6 mill…

I think they meant "in the West". Which makes sense: US and UK sold us to Stalin in Jalta, so they had to wipe the memory of Polish participation in WWII (or at least downplay it), so their societies could feel good about themselves.

Having lived in the UK for many years, the Polish contribution to winning WWII are not publicly acknowledged enough. For example, I have not heard mention of the Polish fighter pilots that helped the UK on (radio reports of) memorial occasions, and they are not officially invited. The one place where this was rectified is Bletchley Park, which after a major refurbishment/re-design now features a statue of codebreaking pioneer Marian Adam Rejewski - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Rejewski

It is unfortunate that the reparations paid to the USSR were not actually used to Poland's benefit; however, that is the USSR's fault, not Germany's, and many Poles acknowledge that. The present government had strong support by conservatives and by anti-communist people because they promised to rid public offices from leftover communists or their puppets (which - true to their word - they did, but in a very bad, anti-democratic way, which ended up breaking more glass than they could have saved). This past support is eroding, but going back to the previous, "communists & puppets" won't solve anything either...

It is regretful that Poland's location in between two much larger, powerful countries made its people suffer as a "buffer zone" of sorts. Of course geography itself doesn't harm people, but people get harmed because of geography.

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#89

Post by albertop »

mrcheesebreeze wrote: post #35
buscoquadnary wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remember when France paid even more in 1815 and 1871 and didn't went on a genocidal rampage on their neighbors? I don't know that I'd say that, like I who to blame for WWI is a very contentious subject and ultimately I'd say that the blame does rest on the German leaders, including the Kasier and German General Staff, but to pretend France has no culpability is a little disingenuous. I'd say that WWI was pretty muc…

the germans are absolutely not responsible for ww1 at all, it was a war between austria-hungary and serbia that russia entered into. it was a chain reaction of treaties. the only one germany 100% caused unneeded trouble for was belgium. As for both world wars, france has a habit of pushing germany to fight because they get to arrogant. Furthermore france actually did go on a genocidal bent right after ww2 in algeria,…

> ww2 was a war caused by angry people electing a maniac

In Germany?

Re: Poland plans to seek $1.3T in reparations from Germany for WWII

#90

Post by jonp888 »

ralusek wrote: post #85
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are the first government that openly buys votes. They focus on their core groups, that is mainly elderly people, and promise them money if they vote for them, at the same time scaring them saying that if they vote for the opposition, this money will be taken away. It is one of the main reason that in spite of universal hatred they still have 30% support, mainly from the elderly.

If giving financial incentives to voters is buying voters, they're certainly not the first government that openly buys votes.

In this case it was plain and simple one off cash payments targeted at their core voter base. I don't think many governments are as blatant as that.
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