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Google’s caste-bias problem

newyorker.com

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Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#131

Post by lotsofpulp »

thisiscorrect wrote: post #95
lotsofpulp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you are describing the norm. The prime advice for everyone is networking, networking, networking, isn’t it? And it’s not what you know, but who you know. Going to the right schools to be able to make the right friends, etc.

Networking and having a reputation among peers for doing good work is one thing. Ethnic nepotism is a different thing. It's a massive failure on the part of many of these companies that this is allowed to happen.

Nepotism is a failure, and working against it is definitely a worthwhile effort. But I have also seen non Indian nephews/nieces get hired into internships because their relative knows someone in the decision making process, etc.

We very openly have universities in the US that favor admitting children and relatives of alumni. Hell, we just had a US President that installed his own kids and son in law in various government capacities, and then pardoned his son in law’s dad.

I guess my comment is to question whether Indians are doing something that different to what non Indians are doing.

It seems like a very gray area. Of course, Indians could be doing it to a shade of gray closer to nepotism than others.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#132

Post by arvindamirtaa »

remflight wrote: post #121
arvindamirtaa wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assertion that it's not, is not sufficient. Especially when the very idea of having a talk caused so much tension. If it's a non existent problem, this talk would've been given no more attention than a presentation about bigfoot. Such (pro)active denial usually indicates the denier has something to hide. Now that may not be the case here. But assuming you're right about this not being a Google problem but just s…

Deleted

Once again, your assertions are yours to make. The policy of the company, as evidenced by their actions, points the other way.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#133

Post by treyfitty »

It's not just Google. As a non-Tech non-Indian that previously worked at AmEx, I was shocked to see how many indians there were at AmEx. I was even more shocked to learn that they discriminate based on caste.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#134

Post by 40acres »

nojito wrote: post #116
40acres wrote: post #34

How would a non Indian person even tell? Is it really all in the last name? I've worked with a fair amount of Indian folks with a wide variety of names - how would you even go about determining someone's caste? Based on this article it sounds like most people who end up in Big Tech will be upper caste.

It’s done through seemingly simple questions. Usually dealing with what city they are from, what city are your parents from, are you vegetarian, are you having dessert? I've never experienced or seen the thread searching. Larger person grabs your shoulder to see if the thread is there. But that wouldn't surprise me at all.

This is interesting. I believe vegetarianism is higher caste but dessert is a tricky one.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#135

Post by woweoe »

isoprophlex wrote: post #9

As someone doing management in a company that hires many Indian workers, both in on-shore and off-shore teams, this is a highly relevant topic for me. I'm a native western european so I'm likely blind to some extend for these issues. Like the article says, this sounds like harmful class-ism that silences or disadvantages specific groups, but not in an "obviously" racist manner based on skin color. Anyone care to shar…

Part of it is to do with emigration from India to the US (where money talks) during the communist Cold War era when there was discrimination against upper castes in India (and note that an upper caste person may not have much money). In the UK and other English speaking countries, immigration was varied and across a much longer time period with predominantly middle class and skilled people.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#136

Post by woweoe »

armchairhacker wrote: post #54
AuthorizedHelp wrote: post #16

I always find it funny how there are massive east asian only groups in all major corporate entities. This is not diversity, this is racism. Nice work FANG.

In my university I find that a lot of the Indian and Asian students like to group together and form their own groups. But they also have a big language barrier: they don’t speak English well and in their groups they always communicate natively. They also have a culture barrier as well, combined with the language barrier this makes them seem awkward. So I don’t blame them.

No post body was provided.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#137

Post by arvindamirtaa »

Aunche wrote: post #124
arvindamirtaa wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DEI (Diversity, Equity & Inclusion) forum is pretty unambiguously the forum to talk about caste discrimination. What forum is Gupta "highjacking" to talk about caste in your opinion? The lesson to be learned is, if you are offended by someone saying they experienced oppression/discrimination, really, look inward.

If your platform champions people's subjective experience, and Indians at Google feel that Soundararajan is discriminatory herself, then they have a right to oppose her talk without being labelled as caste bigots.

What about those that felt discriminated? Where is their forum to talk about what happened to them?

Might I add, if you weren't a party to an experience, an off handed observation that those are just subjective experiences, is frankly not yours to make.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#138

Post by asah »

remflight wrote: post #101
arvindamirtaa wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you haven't experienced something, and think someone else claiming that they experienced it is stupid, I really don't know who is stupid. If person A slaps person B and person C goes "I didn't experience anything. There are no slaps in this company", does that sound reasonable?

Deleted

sorry, but I'm with the others here - one's personal experience does not negate the experience of others, and it also doesn't inform the question of whether this is a "google problem" or an "industry problem" (which btw, I'm inclined to believe). It's just a single random datapoint among (literally) 300,000.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#139

Post by trashtester »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #74
strikelaserclaw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and they get there through working their ass off but that is totally off topic as far as what op was asking.

Which is what every entrenched group of racists claims is the reason for their control over an entity. The 'other' is lazy and we're hard workers. Nope, no bigotry involved, just our innate superiority over other groups.

Similar claims that are used a lot, except for by cis-straigh-white-men (for now), is that their favoritism is a form of "Robin Hood" behavior (Literally referencing Robin Hood). Basically, they feel that their particular identity group has been discriminated against in the past, and justify their otherwise unethical behavior as "restoring justice" by "stealing from the rich/those that have much" to "us that have less". A similar statement I've seen is "It's our turn now!"

You will find this everywhere from pickpockets in Thailand, credit card scammers in India all the way to top universities.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#140

Post by thisiscorrect »

jaywalk wrote: post #66

> The Google spokesperson told The New Yorker, "We made the decision not to move forward with this proposed talk which was pulling employees apart rather than bringing our community together and raising awareness." If the talk was standard DEI fare (shitting on white men) I'm sure any complaints would have been ignored.

I doubt the complaints would be ignored. It'd be fair to assume that the complainant might face consequences for not going along with the program.
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