121–130 of 291 posts
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Your assertion that it's not, is not sufficient. Especially when the very idea of having a talk caused so much tension. If it's a non existent problem, this talk would've been given no more attention than a presentation about bigfoot. Such (pro)active denial usually indicates the denier has something to hide. Now that may not be the case here. But assuming you're right about this not being a Google problem but just s…
I always find it funny how there are massive east asian only groups in all major corporate entities. This is not diversity, this is racism. Nice work FANG.
We spend so much time talking about the traditional race and class struggles in the United States that we don't really have the capacity to properly deal with and address the issues inserted into race by other world countries. It bewilders me to this day to think of all the different dynamics that old world thought subtly imposes on the painting that is now... Just the other day I remembered how as a young guy I was…
In traditional American Black/white photos, you are flat-out right. Many of the problems you allude to cannot be fully addressed until leadership is diverse.
In the context of caste, it is challenging for non-Indian Americans to discern the caste differences in such photos.
>Numerous employees within the company expressed the view that any talk on caste discrimination was offensive to them as Hindus, and made them feel unsafe. >You don’t get to claim or hijack one form of discrimination to perpetuate another form. And yet from the Hindu's perspective, this is exactly what Gupta is doing. The only instances of caste discrimination Gupta can recall are anecdotes of "coded speech". Meanwhi…
The DEI (Diversity, Equity & Inclusion) forum is pretty unambiguously the forum to talk about caste discrimination. What forum is Gupta "highjacking" to talk about caste in your opinion? The lesson to be learned is, if you are offended by someone saying they experienced oppression/discrimination, really, look inward.
A few decades ago during the Cold War, there were several large scale anti-caste movements, and this caused a lot of the moneyed upper caste (note that many of the upper caste are poor) to flee to the US where money often open doors. The immigration to the UK and the other English speaking countries tended to be more varied and more middle class based on skills (doctors, engineers, etc...).
It's widely known within India that a notable portion of the upper caste are based in the US, but in India the IT industry is one of the most caste-blind industries in India, along with how the majority of the IT industry is based in South India where casteism is traditionally less.
I've also heard rumors about discrimination by Indian managers against non-Indian employees at the largest employers in my city. I'm inclined to believe this is true as I've heard from multiple people who worked there that most of engineering management consists of upper caste Indians now but that group represents a relatively small minority of engineering as a whole. I wonder if these two things are connected. In so…
I'm all for fairness for all, no matter their race, but seeing what I've seen in person is very eye opening. I no longer have sympathy for DEI and other such initiatives because they will always be targeted against white people and males, no matter the state of equity/fairness in the world.
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Because they are American citizens and deserve the same opportunities as everyone.
Because they are employees of American companies and they deserve the same opportunities as every other employee.
Deleted because it’s clear I won’t change anyones mind. People who want to believe that Google is guilty, will believe they are guilty no matter what.
I've had fellow team members subject to extreme verbal abuse by managers who would stop by their desk and say absolutely horrible things to them in their native language while maintaining otherwise perfect composure. Threatening their visa status, threatening their family reputation, or just threatening to fire them. I've also learned of the out-of-work social pressure they can face because their communities are smaller and insular and so they interact with these folks outside of work, and there can be power dynamics extending to those places that are just not at all visible to other employees or leadership within the organization.
Those peers have had to suffer quietly some of the most abusive workplace relationships I've ever been adjacent to.
Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Another thing that I've learned, is that companies very often talk to the most about the things they suck at the most. For example, one firm that I worked for touted how everything was based on Teamwork. There were teams for everything. Every employee was expected to be on at least 5 teams. 3 "position related" and 2 "organizational" (e.g. The Birthday Part Team). Your annual evaluation wasn't based on your direct manager at all, it was entirely based on feedback from your "teams".
Needless to say, I've never seen a less team-oriented culture in my life. Every single team was entirely dysfunctional. Nothing got done. Epic levels of in-fighting over every little thing.
Anyhow, people usually talk the most about their insecurities. So, just because it's being talked about, with tons of posters and "trainings", doesn't mean anything truly effective is being done. Probably just the opposite.
ps. As a fellow fan of "edgy" humor, you just gotta learn that work isn't where your edgy sense of humor belongs. Even in the "edgy humor" industry, you'll find that people don't like it mixing with "the job". It's how you get fired or have your career ruined. Regardless of Google's internal HR policies, you're gonna need professional references at some point, and if you've annoyed or creeped everyone out, it's going to be a self-limiting behavior. It doesn't matter if you work at Google, or a truck stop, or a comedy club. Be professional, be inclusive, be friendly. I know a lot of people are going to disagree, but the simple fact of the matter is that you aren't as funny as you think you are, and you probably don't have the ability to "read a room" the way a world-famous entertainer does. Even they get it wrong.
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If you haven't experienced something, and think someone else claiming that they experienced it is stupid, I really don't know who is stupid. If person A slaps person B and person C goes "I didn't experience anything. There are no slaps in this company", does that sound reasonable?
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If something bad is occurring inside Google, then of course it is Google's problem.
Whether or not it's ocurring I don't know, but to think that just because they have training materials saying something is bad and absolutely not to be tolerated means that it's necessarily in practice not tolerated is very naive!
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I'm guessing that Google is also unlikely to host a topic about black-on-black violence. I'm not saying that this is a fair comparison, but that's what many Indians how caste is used. If you're going to place high importance on people's subjective experiences, you can't only do so when it's politically convenient.
Not only is it not a good comparison but there's not even a good thing to compare it to, which would be some other form of discrimination happening within the work place that can't be discussed. What you're saying sounds to me like this problem does exist and it's so bad that even talking about it should be off limits. That's fundamentally unfair to the people potentially being discriminated against.