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Google’s caste-bias problem

newyorker.com

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Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#31

Post by dcolkitt »

_fat_santa wrote: post #24

I don't know why Google (or really all the tech companies in SV) aren't taking this far more seriously. I feel like it opens them up to lawsuits and with the weight they hold, a company like Google can easily institute a zero tolerance policy against it. Send a message that if you do this, you're getting kicked to the curb.

Caste is not a protected class in US employment law. Arguably there might be a basis for a suit if you could show that it reasonably projects onto an existing protected class, but it's not clear to me that you could.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#32

Post by bko »

isoprophlex wrote: post #9

As someone doing management in a company that hires many Indian workers, both in on-shore and off-shore teams, this is a highly relevant topic for me. I'm a native western european so I'm likely blind to some extend for these issues. Like the article says, this sounds like harmful class-ism that silences or disadvantages specific groups, but not in an "obviously" racist manner based on skin color. Anyone care to shar…

Isn't being blind to caste distinctions the optimal way to avoid discrimination? It's like a blind audition.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#34

Post by 40acres »

How would a non Indian person even tell? Is it really all in the last name? I've worked with a fair amount of Indian folks with a wide variety of names - how would you even go about determining someone's caste? Based on this article it sounds like most people who end up in Big Tech will be upper caste.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#35

Post by vsr_pg »

I take no position on the broader issue of the article, but I was shocked to see that Isaac Chotiner (a repeat India-related article writer at New Yorker) failed to mention that Narendra Modi is an OBC in the context of describing the BJP's caste base. Truly, an egregious oversight and one that misleads readers.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#36

Post by rayiner »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #13
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

Aren't most of the absurdly rich people in California white people? To me it seems like Asians in SF as a race are more in a middle to upper middle "professional" class, hardly the group of people to fix very hard social issues such as homelessness.

To the contrary. The upper middle class is the group with the most money and most power to change things. There’s not enough absurdly rich people to change voting patterns, and while they’re individually very rich in the aggregate they’re not a large enough tax base to pay for social programs.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#37

Post by lotsofpulp »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #25
John23832 wrote: post #19

(Outside looking in perspective. I am not Indian.) When I worked as a software engineer are capital one earlier in my career, thus was a very noticeable trend. You had entire teams/groups (and to some extent geographical regions given the way the capital one workforce was split between Richmond Virginia, McLean Virginia, and NYC) where particular castes grouped together. It became particularly acute when you took int…

Saw this at American Express. In many cases, VPs and Directors were actually cousins or even siblings. This was a decade ago. Fast forward to now, and they are at the top of many NYC banks running IT divisions, the same group that worked together so many years ago. Theres an invisible network in many large corporations and none of the jobs are available to employees of those corporations

It seems like you are describing the norm. The prime advice for everyone is networking, networking, networking, isn’t it? And it’s not what you know, but who you know. Going to the right schools to be able to make the right friends, etc.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#38

Post by isoprophlex »

bko wrote: post #32
isoprophlex wrote: post #9

As someone doing management in a company that hires many Indian workers, both in on-shore and off-shore teams, this is a highly relevant topic for me. I'm a native western european so I'm likely blind to some extend for these issues. Like the article says, this sounds like harmful class-ism that silences or disadvantages specific groups, but not in an "obviously" racist manner based on skin color. Anyone care to shar…

Isn't being blind to caste distinctions the optimal way to avoid discrimination? It's like a blind audition.

Yeah, sure! I however want to understand if something untowards is happening between team members. I might be blind, others amongst eachother might not necessarily be.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#39

Post by adamsmith143 »

bko wrote: post #27

> If you replace the denial of caste discrimination with the denial of the Holocaust or something like that, it instantly clicks where other people start to realize, “Oh, something’s wrong if people are denying this.” Seems a bit extreme. Even questioning whether caste discrimination in the US or Google is a large problem is enough to get you lumped into Holocaust denial territory. > People can absolutely discriminat…

Sounds like you are a Brahmin mad about Dalits messing with your status.

>If you don't know the arbitrary classifications of groups, and you're making decisions on something tangible that presumably affects the person's skill set, then is it discrimination if it correlates with some arbitrary distinction you're not aware of?

The problem was clearly stated to be discrimination from other Indians against lower class Indians, NOT white managers unknowingly discriminating against low class Indians.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#40

Post by deepdriver »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #21
AuthorizedHelp wrote: post #16

I always find it funny how there are massive east asian only groups in all major corporate entities. This is not diversity, this is racism. Nice work FANG.

and they get there through working their ass off but that is totally off topic as far as what op was asking.

Or in the case of [big tech company] interns, getting matched to a team purely for being Chinese. For a while there was a big Mandarin-only mailing list that coordinated this type of ingroup selection within [big tech company]. HR found out and shut it down. It was unclear whether those running the list realized what they were doing was highly illegal.

If they had just waited a few years it would still be illegal, but also the open practice of nearly every big hiring department. "We especially encourage AAPI, BIPOC, neurodiverse, nonbinary and LGBTIA+ candidates to apply." That's quoted nearly word-for-word from job listings I'm reviewing. Wonder what that means for my application, as someone who falls outside those boxes and didn't go to an Ivy. Really gets me thinking about politics.

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