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How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

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Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#321

Post by Aerroon »

alt227 wrote: post #239
newman314 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently discovered that Infosec has now mandated that all laptops have sleep disabled (the reason given is to be able to do endpoint patching). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So I'm faced with having to log out and power off every day or suck up the cost of keeping the laptop on. /r/maliciouscompliance, here I come I suppose. Tempted to get one of these: https://us.amazon.com/Vegamax-Button-Ethernet-Internet-Netwo...

>So I'm faced with having to log out and power off every day When did this become a chore? I do this as standard and imo all people should. SSD Boot times these days are mostly under a minute and you get a fresh desktop every time. EDIT: In fact I am one of the sysadmins which so many seem to despise on here. I have hybrid sleep and fast startup disabled by group policy on all my windows domain networks. It reduces s…

Because it's not just system boot time that matters. After you do that you then have to launch half a dozen to a dozen applications that all have varying startup times, that will all randomly draw focus during their startup, and some will require you to do logins during all of that.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#322

Post by heresie-dabord »

washadjeffmad wrote: post #252
ant6n wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s remember AMD was absolute garbage for like 10 years until around 2016, when they finally bounced back. And they were getting closer and closer to bankruptcy, having to flog the silver - their fabs and even their campus. I’d say the Zen design and tsmc saved them (or Lisa Su and Keller). Intel is in a better position financially than AMD was, and could catch up again. I tend to think it depends a lot on the orga…

After running benchmarks on Intel and AMD CPUs from that era with mitigations, it's clear Intel never really had a performance lead due to design. That alone rewrites the entire "state of AMD" narrative. If Intel only had a competitive advantage during that era because they traded performance for security, was there ever really an advantage? I personally don't think Gelsinger is going to be able to fix their culture…

> they traded performance for security, was there ever really an advantage

Security is important, I would always prefer a secure product. But given design habits that elide security for performance, as well as a compromised supply chain, the only choice we have is to side with the devil(s) we know.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#323

Post by BaseballPhysics »

jrockway wrote: post #112
BaseballPhysics wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool, now show me upgrading your M1 to an M2.

Does it matter? I have a Threadripper 3970x and an M1 Macbook Air. For anything that can't use more than 4 cores, the M1 crushes it. The Threadripper also draws over 100W at idle. Whatever AMD and Intel have right now are completely irrelevant, and I say that as one of the biggest haters of OS X there is. I'm not trading in my workstation for a Mac Studio or whatever, though, because I'm guessing AMD's 5nm chips will…

For a site about "hacker" news, this comment is wild to me.

It seems we've truly reached the apex of disposable consumer culture, where even our most powerful technology is something we just throw in the trash and re-purchase when something fails or newer technology becomes available.

I can only hope that companies like Framework can reverse some of this trend. Because as it stands, our already unsustainable culture has gotten to the point where it seems folks no longer remember that anything else is possible, or why we might want to think differently.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#324

Post by colinmhayes »

wodenokoto wrote: post #77

After Apples announcement of M1, I feel like it is mandatory for such a laptop test to discuss power per watt and for how long you can game on the 11 vs 12th gen processor. I also feel like it is worth mentioning that 12th gen laptop is priced ~ $150 over the 11th gen. If you're coding against an online build system and 11 last an extra hour (or whatever), it's a no-brainer to stick with the old one.

Im generally not that concerned about power consumption. My laptop almost never is unplugged for more than a couple hours. I understand that there are many others who don’t use their computer like I do, but personally the only negative effect of power consumption is that it costs an extra $10 a year.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#325

Post by nirui »

ttarr wrote: post #138
nirui wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this is Hacker News and a lot of people here runs Linux, I want to remind everybody to hold your horses before you tested Linux on these machines. The machine that I'm currently using comes with a Ryzen 6800H CPU and LPDDR5-6400 RAMs, made by Lenovo. On Linux, the builtin keyboard don't work because of IRQ problems (See [1], a fix is also available at [2]), and it constantly spams out "mce: [Hardware Error]: Ma…

If you don't mind, can you test Ubuntu or Fedora to see if the issue is present? The reason I'm asking, according to a Lenovo talk from DebConf22 [0], the guy said it takes some time for patches to reach upstream, but with Fedora and Ubuntu they have some connections to shortcut some patches before they reach upstream. [0] https://www.phoronix.com/news/Lenovo-Linux-2022-State

I've already setup production environment on this machine, it's not really easy to test Ubuntu on it. Fedora on the other hand, is the exact distro I'm using.

Sad news is, according to my test, the latest kernel Fedora 36 offered, which is kernel-5.18.16-200.fc36.x86_64, does not come with the keyboard (IRQ override) fix.

Another thing is the mce errors, or more specifically, errors similar to:

    [  332.990256] mce: [Hardware Error]: Machine check events logged
    [  332.990267] [Hardware Error]: Corrected error, no action required.
    [  332.990276] [Hardware Error]: CPU:0 (19:44:1) MC15_STATUS[Over|CE|MiscV|AddrV|-|-|SyndV|CECC|-|-|-]: 0xdc204000000c011b
    [  332.990299] [Hardware Error]: Error Addr: 0x00000000efcf8bc0
    [  332.990304] [Hardware Error]: IPID: 0x0000009600050f00, Syndrome: 0x000001ff0a240701
    [  332.990312] [Hardware Error]: Unified Memory Controller Ext. Error Code: 12
    [  332.990316] [Hardware Error]: cache level: L3/GEN, tx: GEN, mem-tx: RD
It was never fixed by both patched and unpatched kernel.

Of course, those were just the most annoying two. There are many smaller problems such as: 1) Screen won't turn off after timeout if an external display is plugged in via HDMI, 2) Linux S2 (Suspend-to-RAM) never wakes up, 3) Builtin mic don't work, 4) Fingerprint scanner crashes when you put your finger on.

I guess it takes time for those engineers in Lenovo to address those problems, and Lenovo is not a Linux-friendly company (they are more like a Linux-meh company).

Framework on the other hand, cares about Linux more. Sadly they don't operate in my country :(

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#326

Post by copperx »

alt227 wrote: post #255
aeyes wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have hybrid sleep and fast startup disabled by group policy I guess I'll have to add this to my questions to ask at job interviews. Admins like you these days sure try to make our lives as horrible as possible. Corporate anti-virus, DNS interception and policies like these turn my machine into something I constantly want to throw out the window. All because you are too lazy to ask a person to reboot if the machin…

Youve taken a lot of liberties and assumptions with my post here. I dont do any of those things you mentioned, only enforce a nightly shutdown. Nothing to do with laziness. As other people have often mentioned on HN, in the real world of understaffed underbudget corporate IT you need to do what you can to enforce things which make everybodies life easier.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

Policies such as yours are tremendously user hostile, and they are a reflection of the company's culture. I would probably not quit such a company, but I would certainly go rouge by either bringing my own equipment, or reinstalling the OS. If reprimanded, then I would quit.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#327

Post by kaliszad »

sharms wrote: post #317
kaliszad wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least on most ThinkPads, the AMD versions lack Thunderbolt 3/4/ USB 4.0 Full Feature (e.g. including TB) so if I have a Thunderbolt docking station, it will probably not work. Nobody confirmed to me, what would work in such a setting. Will Lenovo/ AMD provide USB 4 upgrade using firmware? Of course, the next question is the potentially asymmetric RAM on the ThinkPads with one channel soldered and one SO-DIMM slot,…

The newer AMD 6xxx series supports Thunderbolt 3 and USB 4 (USB 4 spec includes TB3), which has quite a few compatible docking stations available

Formally yes, but it isn't listed e.g. in the ThinkPad T14 Gen3 (AMD) specs as supported, they are all USB 3.2 only. No TB, no USB 4. TB 3 seems to be optional in the USB 4 spec, as it would need to support 40 Gbps speeds and not "only" 20 Gbps.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#328

Post by siwyd »

deaddodo wrote: post #299
pedrocr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AMD offerings are much closer to M1 although they're not yet on TSMC 5nm so they don't quite match it. It's a historic event. Intel was #1 in laptops for an eternity. Even when the Pentium 4 was being outclassed by AMD Intel still kept the crown in mobile. This time around they first got overtaken by AMD and then by Apple and are now #3. Puts into perspective how huge of a miss their process node fail was.

I have a laptop with the AMD 6900HS. The CPU is great. It’s power envelope and performance feel amazing. My biggest complaint is the there is a very limited selection of Laptops with AMD’s chips, especially the top tier. The one I bought required me to replace the Wifi/Bluetooth card (it came with a barely “supported” MediaTek one) for Linux.

Which one did you get? I was looking at Linux laptops with this CPU, but the line-up is very limited.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#329

Post by BigJ1211 »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #226
Bellyache5 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need separate apps to set scrolling directions for the trackpad and external nice. It’s all in System Preferences.

They're separate tickboxes yes, but if you tick one it ticks the other. At least it did when I still used macOS on portables. Now I only have a mini left for work

I just checked on my work Macbook, this is still correct and utterly stupid behaviour. 'Natural scroll direction' is global for all pointer devices. Internal, external trackpad and mouse.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#330

Post by smoldesu »

zmmmmm wrote: post #191
sdoering wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but than you have corporate compliance installing an insane amount of Spyware on your device so that a 2021 XPS 13 Dell with a gen 10 Intel is out of battery when only using word within the hour. Fans spinning all the time and no way of disabling this madness. Nearly the same for my Mac colleagues. They maybe get 2 hours out of their M1 MBPs unplugged.

Irony being, one of the biggest benefits for me of the M1 power consumption is that it can run quiet and smooth even with all the corporate spyware on there. It can even run MS teams along side that and docker too which also permanently consumers 100% of one core, while still staying completely silent. It's crazy to think you have these opposing teams of engineers, the Apple ones working away to optimise like crazy t…

Sure, but running Docker and Teams will put an M1's CPU at 70c when a similar x86 Linux box would run it at ~40c. Maybe Apple's fan curves are to blame here, but I much prefer a Linux laptop for local dev.
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