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How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

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Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#91

Post by Nursie »

pdpi wrote: post #41
zionic wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then you are minority. I want a portable desktop, speed I can bring with me without lugging my 35lb liquid cooler setup with its 4x140mm radiator. I want something compact and sexy but insanely fast when I “dock” it

The success of the thin-and-light segment, and the MacBook Air in particular, suggests that OP is very much in the majority.

The M1 Air is a wonder as far as I'm concerned. It's very thin and light, fanless, yet I can happily do java dev on it all day and I'm not lacking in capability or waiting around for build and test runs. It rocks.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#92

Post by exyi »

killingtime74 wrote: post #90
chx wrote: post #68

I so badly wish these things had TrackPoints :( the patents have expired...

Since the keyboard is replaceable you could make your own and also sell to other like-minded people?

That's quite a bit more expensive than complaining on HN, or just buying a Lenovo

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#93

Post by nirui »

kcb wrote: post #18
nominusllc wrote: post #2

I went from saying, "if only they had an AMD" to getting a different machine in ARM and now im saying "if only they had ARM". I never realized how much heat, vibration, air blowers negatively affected me before. A framework laptop with some type of ARM or ARM-like cpu could do a lot with the space savings on cooling.

I've played with an AMD 6800u laptop and I would say it's the ideal x86 laptop chip right now. Normal usage at the 12w mode or light gaming at 20w mode was super impressive. Even though 12th Gen Intel chips have made great performance gains Intel is still relying on unsustainable high turbo boosts to get the benchmark numbers. I just recently stumbled across these two otherwise identical laptops. https://psref.lenovo…

Since this is Hacker News and a lot of people here runs Linux, I want to remind everybody to hold your horses before you tested Linux on these machines.

The machine that I'm currently using comes with a Ryzen 6800H CPU and LPDDR5-6400 RAMs, made by Lenovo. On Linux, the builtin keyboard don't work because of IRQ problems (See [1], a fix is also available at [2]), and it constantly spams out "mce: [Hardware Error]: Machine check events logged" messages.

[1]: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=277260

[2]: https://lore.kernel.org/all/20220712020058.90374-1-gch981213...

If you read the code in [2], the patch basically disables IRQ override for every new Ryzen machines (`boot_cpu_has(X86_FEATURE_ZEN)`). Based on that, I assume every new Ryzen CPU has the same problem(???)

Edit: wait... blaming it on the CPU might be unjust, it's more like a kernel adoption problem.

Luckily, compiling Linux kernel with 16 threads is not really too big of a struggle, you can just apply the patch manually every time the kernel updates :-) :-| :-(

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#94

Post by solar-ice »

hnra wrote: post #62
pdpi wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The success of the thin-and-light segment, and the MacBook Air in particular, suggests that OP is very much in the majority.

Thin-and-light would mean smaller battery and harder to cool though? It seems consumers are just uninformed and instead buying the sleekest option.

I've got a sleek option because lugging around a brick is a miserable experience. There's a qualitative difference between the XPS 13 that I can whip out on the train, and a desktop replacement laptop that is heavy and big enough to be a bother and barely fits in my backpack.

Power isn't really an issue - I'm never far from an outlet, and I could carry an external battery in a backpack pocket if it really bothered me.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#95

Post by Gene_Parmesan »

smoldesu wrote: post #54
scarface74 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I travel a lot. That’s going to be increasing by the end of the year as my wife and I live the digital nomad life flying across the US. The freedom of not having to worry about your battery life for a day of real world use is amazing. I’ve only had that over the years with an iPad before ARM Macs. Not to mention your laptop not getting hot enough to boil eggs or sounding like a 747 when you open too ,any Chrome tabs.

The freedom of running Docker on a laptop without heating it to 60c is too tempting, unfortunately. My Macbook will get 2-3 hours of battery life over my Thinkpad, but my Thinkpad also doesn't burn my palms with regular use. It's a game of tradeoffs, but I rarely find myself reaching for the Macbook if I've got a desktop close by. Maybe that's a skewed perspective though. I have yet to try the Pro/Max chips seriously…

Man, the heating on my MacBook is insane. I have a Thinkpad with on board Nvidia card, beefy CPU, etc, and it can play gfx intense games at 4k and still sit in my lap comfortably.

Meanwhile my MacBook from work gets risking-burns-hot from just screensharing on a Zoom call.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#96

Post by lhl »

nirui wrote: post #93
kcb wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played with an AMD 6800u laptop and I would say it's the ideal x86 laptop chip right now. Normal usage at the 12w mode or light gaming at 20w mode was super impressive. Even though 12th Gen Intel chips have made great performance gains Intel is still relying on unsustainable high turbo boosts to get the benchmark numbers. I just recently stumbled across these two otherwise identical laptops. https://psref.lenovo…

Since this is Hacker News and a lot of people here runs Linux, I want to remind everybody to hold your horses before you tested Linux on these machines. The machine that I'm currently using comes with a Ryzen 6800H CPU and LPDDR5-6400 RAMs, made by Lenovo. On Linux, the builtin keyboard don't work because of IRQ problems (See [1], a fix is also available at [2]), and it constantly spams out "mce: [Hardware Error]: Ma…

Here's a user report from back in April from a user running w/ 5.17.x on a 2022 Asus Zephyrus G14 w/ an 6800HS w/o keyboard issues so I don't think it affects all laptops running Ryzen 6000. https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/u5p1rs/zephy...

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#97

Post by microtonal »

ZuLuuuuuu wrote: post #85
kcb wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played with an AMD 6800u laptop and I would say it's the ideal x86 laptop chip right now. Normal usage at the 12w mode or light gaming at 20w mode was super impressive. Even though 12th Gen Intel chips have made great performance gains Intel is still relying on unsustainable high turbo boosts to get the benchmark numbers. I just recently stumbled across these two otherwise identical laptops. https://psref.lenovo…

Exactly. Not just 1 model but you can compare identical ThinkPad models as well and AMD versions have significantly better battery life. Not only that, even last year's identical models with 11th Gen Intel CPUs have better battery life than their new 12th Gen models. So Intel's power efficiency actually decreased compared to last year, even though they introduced the hybrid architecture. In some instances Alder Lake…

These numbers are usually lower in real life

There are data sheets and then there is real life. People were raving about AMD laptops before. I got a ThinkPad T14 AMD with a 4750U. The stated psref battery life is MobileMark 2014: 14 hr, MobileMark 2018: 11.5 hr. In practice that was more like 7 hours on Windows (with a mild workload) and 3 hours on Linux. The CPU performance was merely ok and I could get the fans blowing quite quickly.

Life with the laptop was quite miserable. There were many other paper cuts and despite being Linux-certified, I used Windows with WSL most of the time since basic things like suspend would at least work relatively reliably.

I sold the T14 after 7 months (thank deity that there was a chip shortage, so I could recoup quite a lot of the 1400 Euro I paid for the T14), got a MacBook Air M1 and didn't look back. It's a world of difference.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#98

Post by aetherspawn »

philliphaydon wrote: post #82

I’m rather disappointed in 12th Gen for mobile. I have a AMD 5800h Lenovo laptop and a 12700 Dell. The dell stutters, fans spin, etc. the Lenovo is just rock solid and fast. Never stutters or slows down. Fans spin up only when playing games. I wish framework would do an AMD laptop. But Linus put them in touch with AMD and they done nothing.

It can depend more on the graphics card(s) and the chassis type than the CPU.

For example if the Lenovo is a P15 and you’re comparing it to a Dell Latitude, then yeah duh.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#99

Post by brokenmachine »

bwhitty wrote: post #38
itvision wrote: post #19

For MT performance and graphics Ryzen 5800U and 6800U are even better.

6800U is awesome from what I’ve seen — better efficiency by far, and legit integrated graphics better than Xe — but it is vanishingly rare, even months after announcement. The scale Intel has in manufacturing mobile CPUs is still unmatched.

>6800U is awesome from what I’ve seen — better efficiency by far

The 6800U is only a 5% efficiency increase over 5800U, I agree that the GPU is _much_ better though.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-7-6800U-Efficiency-R...

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#100

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

Nursie wrote: post #91
pdpi wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The success of the thin-and-light segment, and the MacBook Air in particular, suggests that OP is very much in the majority.

The M1 Air is a wonder as far as I'm concerned. It's very thin and light, fanless, yet I can happily do java dev on it all day and I'm not lacking in capability or waiting around for build and test runs. It rocks.

Are you running your apps in docker?
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