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Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

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Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#491

Post by calvinv »

mandeepj wrote: post #449
joshklein wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My "never again" story was around a decade ago. Thoughtworks had me interview with roughly a dozen people over half a dozen or more interviews, lasting ~20 hours (if you include the proctored Wunderlic test they administered to me on premises). At the end of that lengthy process, they said they would have loved to bring me on but "didn't have any open positions that fit my set of skills". You know, that set of skills…

Thoughtworks also screwed me like that. They gave me a take-home assignment which took few hours. At the end, their feedback was - my code is not cloud scalable and their were some values that I used directly and not from a configuration :-). How can those people claim to be interviewers?

My team has thoughtwork contractors in it and I'm not surprised by your comments. Their actual ability to get things done is pretty bad

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#492

Post by cbm-vic-20 »

jiscariot wrote: post #489
maxwell wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You only get 15-30 days of vacation per year. This is why I'm glad to have "unlimited" PTO (subject to manager approval + must be requested at least the duration in advance, e.g. 2 weeks notice for 2 weeks off), along with a few annual company-wide breaks and an earned month-long break every 3 years.

So really your PTO is subject to the discretion of your manager. Unlimited sounds good, but in practice, I think it is better to have ownership of your time off. I remember like 20 years ago having unlimited sick time, which in reality just meant your manager was rated on how much sick time their team burned through.

I'm a manager at a place that has "unlimited PTO"- and I've never rejected anyone's request for time off, and the only reason I do keep track of it is to encourage people to take time off. I need my developers to be at the top of their game, and that requires them to take a mental break so they don't get burned out.

That said, I need to take more PTO so I don't burn out...

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#493

Post by flippinburgers »

gernb wrote: post #251
corrral wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but... some places think a "senior software developer" should make $70,000, and other think they should make $250,000 or more. And everything in between. I don't care how nice the a place it is to work, I'm not applying to the $70k place. If I can't quickly figure out where you fall on that spectrum, I'm not going to bother to contact you because job listings are not rare . If you somehow manage to present as exa…

Honestly I'm considering the $70k place where as right now I have the $500k total comp. I can't say I hate my job but I have zero interest in it. Where as I had lots of The biggest reason I haven't pulled the trigger is there's no guarntee that taking the $70k will actually be fun this time. I have my criteria for taking the jump though and if they're met I'd do it in a heartbeat.

We can swap if you like. I make $55K.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#494

Post by jdwithit »

BooneJS wrote: post #461
rustybelt wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s famously administered to all nfl quarterbacks. Tom Brady got a 33.

All NFL players, not just quarterbacks, right?

Yes, all positions, there's a little more info about it in the linked Wikipedia article.

Apparently Frank Gore had one of the all time lowest scores with a 6. He is a borderline Hall of Fame caliber running back.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#495

Post by flippinburgers »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

Yeah maybe the money doesn't matter if you are single. If you have a family to support, however, money is every so slightly important.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#496

Post by flippinburgers »

antod wrote: post #439
seadan83 wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never have the thought, "I'm not being payed enough for this shit?" Or, realized new hires with less experience are being payed more? Or that colleagues that are slacking are being payed the same or more? All these feel like concerns related to pay while working. I've certainly had those thoughts and was genuinely underplayed for half my career

> You never have the thought, "I'm not being payed enough for this shit?" More like "no amount of money is enough to make me happy doing this shit"

I would be thrilled to take some pretty "miserable" programming work for 7 digit compensation.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#497

Post by germandiago »

d4mi3n wrote: post #373
germandiago wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a difficult topic. We evolved to the 40h/week mentality. This is a big luck for us. I think things should be more based on goals than on time itself, honestly. What I mean is: if you work 40h but you do not deliver anything, how is that good compared to someone that in 32 delivers more? We have to put ourselves on the side of the employer also, even if some people hate them.

This is a management problem, not an employee problem. Figuring out if I can be outperformed by someone working less hours than me is irrelevant to my relationship to my employer. I'd go further to say that it's irrelevant barring frequency of the event having an impact on the broader job market. For any team, you will have a range of performance. For any individual, you will have different work styles. This is norma…

There is always a feedback cycle also I think. You can tell your manager why something could work or not. The manager is the responsible from the direction POV but it is also true that we are responsible to some extent of how we perform. Maybe not from an executive or strategic POV but yes from a deliver-what-you-are-asked for POV.

What I mean, all in all, is: we all should care. That's why it is called an organization.

I agree with job about the job of a manager. I am just telling you that each one has her responsibility. All of us.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#498

Post by exadeci »

gernb wrote: post #251
corrral wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but... some places think a "senior software developer" should make $70,000, and other think they should make $250,000 or more. And everything in between. I don't care how nice the a place it is to work, I'm not applying to the $70k place. If I can't quickly figure out where you fall on that spectrum, I'm not going to bother to contact you because job listings are not rare . If you somehow manage to present as exa…

Honestly I'm considering the $70k place where as right now I have the $500k total comp. I can't say I hate my job but I have zero interest in it. Where as I had lots of The biggest reason I haven't pulled the trigger is there's no guarntee that taking the $70k will actually be fun this time. I have my criteria for taking the jump though and if they're met I'd do it in a heartbeat.

There exists jobs that would be better paid than the $70k and be more fun than the soul crushing very high income terrible job.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#499

Post by puntofisso »

I don't share/forward jobs without a salary range, and usually refuse to engage with them. I do ask, and if they're fuzzy, I understand it's not a good match. That said, and beyond my personal preference of a relatively privileged person (white male early 40s), this website gives some ideas on why it's better to publish salary ranges: https://showthepay.com/

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#500

Post by bastardoperator »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #485
bastardoperator wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't how salaried position work though, not in the US anyways. You will get paid X if you work 10 hours a week or X if you work 50 hours a week. There is no difference in pay. Would you be open to losing pay? Do you want to be accountable for every single hour of work you do? Most don't.

I'm not in the US, but I work for a US based company. My contract specifically says I work 40h/week, have X days off/year (outside of statutory holidays) as PTO, etc. This means that 5 days a week, I am at my keyboard, available on Slack, etc for 8 hours per day. Hours are logged in a time tracking application (including time spent when there was nothing to do), and overages get added automatically to holiday time.

Thats a contract position, not a salaried position. Most tech job in the US do not pay hourly. A salaried position says you will make X per year including benefits like unlimited PTO, 401K matching, reserved stock units, discount stock purchasing program, life insurance, medical insurance, etc... There is also no logging of time because your pay cannot be raised or reduced on a weekly basis.
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