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Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

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Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#381

Post by dennis_jeeves1 »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

>If your primary reason for responding to an ad is based upon salary you are not going to be happy where you work. I promise. Of the top reasons people are happy at work, salary is way down on the list. [0] It is important, it makes it possible to pay bills, but it isn't what makes people happy.

Generally when you get people for whom salary is way down on the list, you get morons. But I think you are indeed looking for morons. So your strategy will work.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#382

Post by lr »

Given the number of upvotes this has, and I would guess, too, that people who upvote a story don't always comment, I would say there is pretty strong agreement with posting salaries. Like, everyone, just get over yourselves, and post salaries. Then we can go on to debating other aspects of hiring, work culture, work-life balance, etc. I am not saying that to diminish the salary thing, but of all of the issues surrounding hiring and working somewhere, the posting of salaries seems like a no-brainer.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#383

Post by SauciestGNU »

jacquesm wrote: post #135
munk-a wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To follow up on this point. It's not just the amount that is about pay either... it's the fact that, during the job seeking process, you as an employer respect me enough to be transparent about what you're paying. And, on a personal note, transparent wages are known to help break underpayment cycles where workers have been repeatedly underpaid and at each new opportunity their compensation is based on "Well what did…

And, importantly: they indicate to the sitting crew how much they could make in their current jobs if they were to apply externally, and it isn't rare at all for that to be substantially more than they are making at present. So salary transparency helps employees evaluate their position across the board, not just new hires: if things are fair then there is no problem, but if things are not then employers will be loat…

Yeah this is exactly what I just went through, from making $70k-ish in a LCOL area to now triple that without moving. My coworkers knew their pay was low but not by how much. I did the best I could to be transparent with them on my way out. I'm curious just how many of them are planning on staying.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#384

Post by joshklein »

dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

My "never again" story was around a decade ago. Thoughtworks had me interview with roughly a dozen people over half a dozen or more interviews, lasting ~20 hours (if you include the proctored Wunderlic test they administered to me on premises). At the end of that lengthy process, they said they would have loved to bring me on but "didn't have any open positions that fit my set of skills". You know, that set of skills I listed next to my work experience on my 2-page resume.

I no longer submit applications to any job until I've spoken to someone who works there to ask hard questions of them before I interview. I also no longer consider any job that lacks clear articulation of the platonic ideal of a candidate.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#385

Post by sharpy »

dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

I had a similiar experience. After what felt like a long journey, and then receiving an offer that was less than my then base pay, I refuse to talk to companies that won't give me a pay range.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#387

Post by twawaaay »

somenewaccount1 wrote: post #347
twawaaay wrote: post #282

In decades of interviewing and hiring developers I have not seen an actual difference coming from posting salary ranges. I tried many different versions of this. As a candidate, I do not apply to a thousand different places. I find 3-4 where I would want to work and I do my research before I even apply. I know what they can pay me before I get to talk to them. As an interviewer I try to stay away from candidates that…

That is so terrific you are talented enough that out of 3-4 places you want to work, one of them hires you. This seems like terrible advice for most people though. Even if 4 out of the 4 would hire you, the chances of getting your resume looked at and a callback is very slim - and that's because it's a numbers game on both sides. Popular roles often have 10's-100's of candidates.

> This seems like terrible advice for most people though.

But why?

Maybe reducing number of companies you apply to lets you focus much more on getting prepared and this leads to you standing out from other candidates?

Remember, you don't need a thousand jobs, you just need one. One that suits you.

If I am interviewer and I see a candidate that looks like he/she is prepared, did their research and genuinely care and want to work for the company I work for, don't you think this is huge advantage when comparing to other candidates, all else being equal?

And it is rare that all else is being equal. People who are genuinely prepared typically tend to do a lot of other things right.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#388

Post by Stampo00 »

dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

Sometimes I wonder if the long interview process isn't a psychological game. Maybe they think they can leverage sunk cost fallacy against you just so they can low-ball you. Yeah, the pay might not be great, but if you walk away now, you'll have wasted 9 weeks of effort! You can't give up now. You're invested. ;-)

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#389

Post by hcurtiss »

mynameishere wrote: post #375
twawaaay wrote: post #282

In decades of interviewing and hiring developers I have not seen an actual difference coming from posting salary ranges. I tried many different versions of this. As a candidate, I do not apply to a thousand different places. I find 3-4 where I would want to work and I do my research before I even apply. I know what they can pay me before I get to talk to them. As an interviewer I try to stay away from candidates that…

Quoted post unavailable.

How is the GP supposed to respond to this? You're not wrong that its a common mistake, but you're not adding anything to the conversation by remarking on it. And you're not actually asking for any help. Comments like this are generally not well-received on HN.
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