Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#401

Post by devin » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 8:50 PM UTC

b20000 wrote: post #334

dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

This is also why you should not agree to do coding interviews.

Does this work at any of the big companies? I'm coming up on something like 15 years of experience. I have a leetcode account and I've dabbled, but to be honest I'm just not that interested in playing that game, even for difference in comp it would likely bring.

That said, I am not all that averse to a respectful-of-my-time take home or having a discussion about a particular piece of code with a bit of prep, etc.

I've seen programmers far better than me get chewed up and spit out by the FAANG interview process because they hadn't prepped their leetcode skills enough. Anyway, I'm sure we could debate the interview process to death, but my original question stands: Can you just straight up say no to a coding interview at any FAANG or FAANG-like companies and actually get to an offer without having massive online reputation points?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#402

Post by Mandatum » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

devin wrote: post #401

b20000 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also why you should not agree to do coding interviews.

Does this work at any of the big companies? I'm coming up on something like 15 years of experience. I have a leetcode account and I've dabbled, but to be honest I'm just not that interested in playing that game, even for difference in comp it would likely bring. That said, I am not all that averse to a respectful-of-my-time take home or having a discussion about a particular piece of code with a bit of prep, etc. I'v…

Only if you know a VP or above. This isn’t a hurdle that can easily be overcome.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#403

Post by throwaway81523 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

joshklein wrote: post #384

dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

My "never again" story was around a decade ago. Thoughtworks had me interview with roughly a dozen people over half a dozen or more interviews, lasting ~20 hours (if you include the proctored Wunderlic test they administered to me on premises). At the end of that lengthy process, they said they would have loved to bring me on but "didn't have any open positions that fit my set of skills". You know, that set of skills…

I hadn't heard of the Wonderlic test before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test

Interesting and a bit creepy.

I think here in California for nerds who have been around for a while, companies have at least some concept of what competitive rates are, so I hadn't worried about posted salary ranges. If they waste your time leading up to a lowball offer, they at least have wasted their own time as well, so they have an incentive to not do that. That of course assumes you didn't do a take home assignment ;).

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#404

Post by akavi » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 8:57 PM UTC

b20000 wrote: post #334

dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

This is also why you should not agree to do coding interviews.

Personally, I refuse to work for companies that don't explicitly evaluate programming ability when interviewing engineers.

I want to know that the people I'll be working with are at least baseline competent in that regard.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#405

Post by throwaway81523 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:00 PM UTC

devin wrote: post #401

b20000 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also why you should not agree to do coding interviews.

Does this work at any of the big companies? I'm coming up on something like 15 years of experience. I have a leetcode account and I've dabbled, but to be honest I'm just not that interested in playing that game, even for difference in comp it would likely bring. That said, I am not all that averse to a respectful-of-my-time take home or having a discussion about a particular piece of code with a bit of prep, etc. I'v…

> Does this work at any of the big companies?

I've had coding interviews at big companies but always on their premises, with the interviewer there talking to me while I code. So I'm ok with that. They've never asked me to do a take home. I did a few of those for smaller companies before realizing that it's better to refuse.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#406

Post by maxwell » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:00 PM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #313

dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

This is exactly why. Interviewing can easily eat up 2-3 days of your life. You only get 15-30 days of vacation per year. Theoretically, you are working to have free time. This is maybe 1/5th of your free time per year. You can't waste this on unknowns. Give me the salary up front or p#$$ off.

> You only get 15-30 days of vacation per year.

This is why I'm glad to have "unlimited" PTO (subject to manager approval + must be requested at least the duration in advance, e.g. 2 weeks notice for 2 weeks off), along with a few annual company-wide breaks and an earned month-long break every 3 years.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#407

Post by Joel_Mckay » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:02 PM UTC

When tasked with new hires, I was often biased by startup-culture to make sure everyone was fed at my table. However, this also led to overpaying inexperienced kids with senior level salaries, and often incurred a lack of work ethic from some (money makes some people stupid). In general, we found firing the counter-productive after 1 month was the most effective means at reminding everyone of their obligations, as handing out pay cuts and manipulative antics just fosters resentment.

  If someone appears purely motivated by compensation packages, than you can be sure they belong in a bureaucratic process rather than a development team.  Likewise, companies that try to cost optimize labor for a fixed-cost project have doomed themselves to be crushed by competitors.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#408

Post by briffle » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:07 PM UTC

maxwell wrote: post #406

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why. Interviewing can easily eat up 2-3 days of your life. You only get 15-30 days of vacation per year. Theoretically, you are working to have free time. This is maybe 1/5th of your free time per year. You can't waste this on unknowns. Give me the salary up front or p#$$ off.

> You only get 15-30 days of vacation per year. This is why I'm glad to have "unlimited" PTO (subject to manager approval + must be requested at least the duration in advance, e.g. 2 weeks notice for 2 weeks off), along with a few annual company-wide breaks and an earned month-long break every 3 years.

I am opposite, I like limited PTO, because in my state your employer has to pay you for the unused time when you leave..

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#409

Post by roflyear » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:12 PM UTC

kokanator wrote: post #179

bilsbie wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind it’s really easy to trick yourself into believing the salaries you’re offering are aggressive. I bet 80% of companies would say they have above average salaries.

All our salaries are based upon most recent data assembled by market across the country and, in the case of this round of hiring, +10% to deal with the current inflation conditions. So, I am not just 'saying'. I have data. Careful research goes into making sure our employees are paid in pace or exceeding the market.

How much you paying for a python dev with 6 years of experience?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#410

Post by time_to_smile » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:13 PM UTC

memling wrote: post #286

time_to_smile wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all anymore, at least not for TC. An insane number of startups have IPO'd in the last two years, and even with stock drops a lot of people suddenly have RSUs. In addition the rise in remote work has meant that near SV pay is much easier to obtain. Very few of my friends live in SV and I only know a few who aren't making at least that amount at the senior level. That number is not at all wild for an…

> That's not true at all anymore, at least not for TC. OP was discussing salary range, not total comp--but I'd be a little surprised to find that even TC at the $350k range at the top outside of SV firms is quite high. I'm not totally persuaded by levels.fyi, but looking at metros at 90th percentile of SWE total comp: Bay Area - 425k Los Angeles - 325k NYC - 343k Denver - 298k Boston - 273k Austin - 268k Chicago - 26…

First the OP claims "Our salary offerings are very aggressive", I'm claiming they are not aggressive. I'll agree on the confusion with TC, but I'm also guessing for OP's company Salary == TC.

So right off the bat I'm not sure the point you're making. If the upper limit you are willing to pay does not exceed the 90th percentile TC, by definition you are not offering "very aggressive" pay. There are tons of mediocre, low paying software jobs out there, but posting that you are one of those is not going to attract more applicants. OP claims they are not one of those companies, and I disagree.

Second your numbers there aren't conditioning on seniority, and additionally given not only population size but proportion of tech jobs available the Bay area and NYC account for the majority of software jobs out there.

My point still stands that OPs company is in fact not offering "very aggressive" comp. Ignoring seniority (which will be weighted by more junior roles) not having the upper bound of comp being in the 90% means you are not really offering aggressive pay in the most major software markets.