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Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

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Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#411

Post by cptskippy »

commandlinefan wrote: post #233
pessimizer wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you'd be surprised by this. If you were giving away milk, you'd get a better response from an ad that said "Free Milk" than an ad that said "Free Expired Milk," even though the milk you're giving away is expired. You're concealing relevant information in order to sucker in people who have no interest. It's the central mechanism behind "linkbait" headlines. It's just a dark pattern. People who were no…

> you'd get a better response from an ad that said "Free Milk" than an ad that said "Free Expired Milk," But he said he got better candidates with the ad that didn't post salary ranges. If I understand your analogy, that's like (counterintuitively) getting more responses for the expired milk.

> But he said he got better candidates with the ad that didn't post salary ranges.

He did, and that raises a lot of questions:

Were the ads identical otherwise?

Were the salaries actually competitive or did he just think they were?

Did any of these better candidates actually accept an offer?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#412

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway81523 wrote: post #403
joshklein wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My "never again" story was around a decade ago. Thoughtworks had me interview with roughly a dozen people over half a dozen or more interviews, lasting ~20 hours (if you include the proctored Wunderlic test they administered to me on premises). At the end of that lengthy process, they said they would have loved to bring me on but "didn't have any open positions that fit my set of skills". You know, that set of skills…

I hadn't heard of the Wonderlic test before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test Interesting and a bit creepy. I think here in California for nerds who have been around for a while, companies have at least some concept of what competitive rates are, so I hadn't worried about posted salary ranges. If they waste your time leading up to a lowball offer, they at least have wasted their own time as well, so they…

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#413

Post by badpun »

gernb wrote: post #251
corrral wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but... some places think a "senior software developer" should make $70,000, and other think they should make $250,000 or more. And everything in between. I don't care how nice the a place it is to work, I'm not applying to the $70k place. If I can't quickly figure out where you fall on that spectrum, I'm not going to bother to contact you because job listings are not rare . If you somehow manage to present as exa…

Honestly I'm considering the $70k place where as right now I have the $500k total comp. I can't say I hate my job but I have zero interest in it. Where as I had lots of The biggest reason I haven't pulled the trigger is there's no guarntee that taking the $70k will actually be fun this time. I have my criteria for taking the jump though and if they're met I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Out of curiosity, what were those sub-$100k jobs you loved?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#415

Post by phyzome »

asdff wrote: post #223
Victerius wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bite. Would you take the job for $300 000?

These comments are absurd considering farmhands get paid minimum wage to shovel huge pieces of manure

It's the singing arias about it that people are balking at.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#416

Post by Broken_Hippo »

the_arun wrote: post #274
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Of the top reasons people are happy at work, salary is way down on the list. You're conflating multiple things here. People aren't focusing on money because it's the most important part. They focus on money because it's one of the few things that's relatively easy to make tangible ahead of time. Similar goes for things like remote/hybrid, secondary benefits, etc. Many elements on that list, while important, are incr…

Work Life Balance is purely subjective & depends on personal preferences. Your balance in life != mine. It also depends on : 1. How creative/smart we are in achieving outcomes with less work. 2. Would my company provides a platform to accelerate this?

Sure, your life balance doesn't equal mine. That doesn't mean that either of us should be expected to work more or less. If you want to work more, get a second job or invest time into a structured hobby.

It doesn't generally depend on how creative/smart we are, nor even our outcomes with less work. You working on a task that is easy for you doesn't mean that I should work more and you should work less. It really just means that we can expect different things from you than me, which is realistic so long as they aren't vastly different on the same task.

Work-life balance doesn't really depend on anything the company does other than having policies that allow for it and then actually following through.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#417

Post by 7402 »

wccrawford wrote: post #85
kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

My father once told me that money is how the company tells you how much they value you. It isn't just about the money, it's about the respect. Many, many people leave jobs because of the salary. Not just they need more money, but because they know they're worth more than that and can get it. Those people are not going to bother looking at jobs that pay less than they're worth. They are absolutely going to look at the…

Respect to your father, who knew what he was talking about.

In a similar story, my father once told me, "People are always happy to pay you less than you are worth."

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#418

Post by WheatM »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

No post body was provided.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#419

Post by Broken_Hippo »

ActorNightly wrote: post #351
wccrawford wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father once told me that money is how the company tells you how much they value you. It isn't just about the money, it's about the respect. Many, many people leave jobs because of the salary. Not just they need more money, but because they know they're worth more than that and can get it. Those people are not going to bother looking at jobs that pay less than they're worth. They are absolutely going to look at the…

There is a lot more complexity to this. For example, I used to work in a SCIF for a government contractor in Northern Virginia, making 95k. No windows, no internet, no cell phone, no outside software without an approval process (had to manually burn linux packages to a CD, often multiple times a day because of dependencies). Then I got a job at Amazon in their Austin location, essentially almost tripling my salary wi…

A lot of them were either single or with girlfriends, i.e without family, so relocation would not have been an issue.

Just because someone is single doesn't mean they don't have family and friends in the area. The further the move, the less contact they have with their existing social network. Not everyone is up for that, especially if you are moving a decent distance (like between states).

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#420

Post by TristanBall »

Tao3300 wrote: post #73
ThalesX wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of the top reasons people are happy at work, salary is way down on the list. > It is important, it makes it possible to pay bills, but it isn't what makes people happy. Meaning, if you are looking for a place you will enjoy working, do not start with salary. This feels strange to me… I have a minimum salary for which I wouldn’t consider working for a company even if they offered me flying rainbow unicorns. It’s not…

Likewise, I have a minimum salary for which I will move giant hunks of manure with my bare hands and love it so much I'll sing arias about it while I do so. It's a really big number, but I assure you it exists.

Having actually done this ( taking manure collected at a dairy to a worm farm )... when collected into a pit or large enough pile, the manure re-liquifies under the top layer, so while you do acclimatize to the smell after 15-30 mins, moving it with your hands is not effective.

Whatever that big number is.. double it is what I'm saying!

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