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Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

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Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#271

Post by jeroenhd »

cygned wrote: post #37

We don’t post salary ranges right now. We are a small firm and cannot keep up with the salaries from enterprises in our area. We are looking for (and finding) candidates that are willing to sacrifice parts of their salary for 100% remote, flexible work time, PTO and others. We decided to screen applicants in an informal phone call and discuss salary options at the end, after they had a first impression of how we are…

IMO, things like the ability to work remotely, set up a flexible schedule and get a nice amount of paid time off are part of the compensation as much as the salary.

Some people just want money; hoard it like a dragon, invest, retire early. Others are perfectly fine with earning less if they can live better lives in exchange. After all, what's a huge pay check worth if you can't enjoy your hard-earned money in the prime of your life? Or perhaps the dev has a family and prefers spending time with their kids? You can still make money later in life, but your kids' life milestones are irreplaceable.

Posting a lower salary position may attract different people (i.e. people who value their private life more than the money) but that's not necessarily a bad thing. With enough experience, someone can always get more money elsewhere; their employment may only last until the second a better job offer comes in. People who value the additional benefits more are less likely to get them at other companies, as the market is aimed at making the most money right now, so I'd expect them to stick around longer and have more of a vested interest in the success of your company.

You may miss out on top players who want to see their money's worth, but if your package is as good as you say it is, I don't see why you wouldn't post your salary ranges. Focus the ad on what makes the job great and add the range for transparency and I'm sure you'll find the right people.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#272

Post by ZephyrBlu »

kokanator wrote: post #179
bilsbie wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind it’s really easy to trick yourself into believing the salaries you’re offering are aggressive. I bet 80% of companies would say they have above average salaries.

All our salaries are based upon most recent data assembled by market across the country and, in the case of this round of hiring, +10% to deal with the current inflation conditions. So, I am not just 'saying'. I have data. Careful research goes into making sure our employees are paid in pace or exceeding the market.

This is what everyone says. "we know our salary is competitive because we benchmark it against the market". Most benchmarks for tech companies are dogshit though.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#273

Post by ROTMetro »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

Don't be a zombie. Don't feed the zombies. Knowing the price range the company can afford tells me if this is a zombie company (a company that is dead if it has to pay the going rate but stays 'alive' by hiring people willing to settle for less (students getting experience, self taught people, exploited desperate people, etc)). I have worked at plenty of zombie companies, from ones that thought they were startups, ones using the motivation of making the world better, ones exploiting excon's whose POs require them to have a job as a probation condition with the threat of prison. Every single one EXPLOITs you somehow (using FOMO, passion, compassion, the threat of your freedom). Do not go to work for a zombie company, and let legit businesses know they present themselves as a zombie business when they fail to publish salary ranges.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#274

Post by the_arun »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #52
kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

>Of the top reasons people are happy at work, salary is way down on the list. You're conflating multiple things here. People aren't focusing on money because it's the most important part. They focus on money because it's one of the few things that's relatively easy to make tangible ahead of time. Similar goes for things like remote/hybrid, secondary benefits, etc. Many elements on that list, while important, are incr…

Work Life Balance is purely subjective & depends on personal preferences. Your balance in life != mine.

It also depends on :

1. How creative/smart we are in achieving outcomes with less work.

2. Would my company provides a platform to accelerate this?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#275

Post by winternett »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

I always like to start with the salary. I don't think I've ever been disappointed when a job pays me more, because it drives me to be worth the money more...

Otherwise we (Me and the recruiter) both end up wasting each other's time once I find out the salary is below market value. Honesty is key, positive company culture should be a common expectation in all roles, it's not worth sacrificing income for in my opinion.

One of the best career moves I can make is to ensure I am being paid properly for every job I accept. The most defeating experience is accepting a job that pays under market standard when roles and responsibilities are always guaranteed to increase and often become overburdening without overtime... I also live in an "At will" state, and that makes employers pretty careless about retaining me when their budgets on other projects suffer.

As a senior employee who has done everything from Development to Architecture to Proposals to Project Management, Companies often try to seek advantage for hiring me at a lower rate for just one of those skills, but then often pile on the other roles and work hard to tap my experience/knowledge/contacts for free... In cases like that, a company becomes one in the same as an employee that lied on their resume.

It's akin to being on a dating site... We all need to stop wasting each other's time and find the right matches that are well suited to each job. Listing salary is like a suitor listing their age on their dating profile... Pretty essential every time.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#276

Post by ThePadawan »

bell-cot wrote: post #202
ThePadawan wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd do it for $300k ...hourly.

"Thank you for considering us, but we were able to fill the position with a more-experienced candidate whose salary requirements were more in line with..."

OK now we're definitely drifting into fantasy territory.

A company specifying an actual reason for rejecting a candidate? In writing??

(/j)

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#277

Post by mwigdahl »

jacquesm wrote: post #96
kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

> If your primary reason for responding to an ad is based upon salary you are not going to be happy where you work. I promise. I don't really care about your promise because after many (too many?) years in business and seeing a lot of companies from the inside without any restrictions I can tell you that companies that paid at or above market rates generally had better work/life balance than the ones that did not and…

This is a really good point. Bad management/strategy leads to all sorts of corporate dysfunction, and many times that shows through in either unwillingness or inability to pay market-level salaries for good developers who have options in the wider market.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#278

Post by emaginniss »

Victerius wrote: post #65
sha256sum wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot has changed since 2014. Any more recent metrics on this?

Human nature doesn't change in a meek 8 years.

Are the same number of people seeking fully remote jobs now as were seeking them 8 years ago? Human nature may not change that much, but a job market certainly can.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#279

Post by ClayM »

corrral wrote: post #159
kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

OK, but... some places think a "senior software developer" should make $70,000, and other think they should make $250,000 or more. And everything in between. I don't care how nice the a place it is to work, I'm not applying to the $70k place. If I can't quickly figure out where you fall on that spectrum, I'm not going to bother to contact you because job listings are not rare . If you somehow manage to present as exa…

i ran into a regional bank who wanted to pay a principal engineer $115K to build their entire digital customer facing platform

i was stunned

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#280

Post by jacquesm »

gernb wrote: post #251
corrral wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but... some places think a "senior software developer" should make $70,000, and other think they should make $250,000 or more. And everything in between. I don't care how nice the a place it is to work, I'm not applying to the $70k place. If I can't quickly figure out where you fall on that spectrum, I'm not going to bother to contact you because job listings are not rare . If you somehow manage to present as exa…

Honestly I'm considering the $70k place where as right now I have the $500k total comp. I can't say I hate my job but I have zero interest in it. Where as I had lots of The biggest reason I haven't pulled the trigger is there's no guarntee that taking the $70k will actually be fun this time. I have my criteria for taking the jump though and if they're met I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Save for one year then take 6 years off and come out roughly the same. That seems like an absolute no-brainer to me.
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