Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody • Hacker News Board

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#351

Post by usrn » Fri, Jul 08, 2022, 10:59 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #133

chii wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is that gun violence has several different categories, and gun control only helps some of them (such as accidental, or emotional, spur of the moment shootings), but doesn't prevent any premeditated ones. It will not stop people like the one at 4th july, nor those school shootings. Unless the gun control laws completely outlaw civilians owning guns - which i dont think will fly. The root cause of gun violence…

In the school shootings, at least, there is always some unhinged person behind it. Deeper mental health checks before purchasing a gun (like as is required in Germany) could be very useful. Also, rules in place that your gun is stored securely in a safe, and spot checks to verify such (again, in Germany) can help with guns making their way into other people’s hands either by being given or by being taken. A friend of…

School shootings are an extremely tiny minority among shootings in the US. They just get a lot of attention.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#352

Post by usrn » Fri, Jul 08, 2022, 11:00 AM UTC

widjit wrote: post #265

cowtools wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a slippery slope to every state having restrictive NY-like gun laws. I don't care about legal or cultural precedent in germany or the EU. This isn't germany. The US plays a far more important role in global affairs, and as such must take more dramatic measures to prevent it from falling into the hands of some regime, those measures include the right to bear arms as well as freedom of speech and freedom of rel…

a slippery slope to significantly reduced gun deaths oh no

The places in the US with the tightest gun regulations have the most gun deaths because it's the people, not the guns, that cause the problem.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#353

Post by koonsolo » Fri, Jul 08, 2022, 11:01 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #325

kumarvvr wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but why would a complete ban on citizens owning guns, unless for very special cases not severely curb gun violence?

it would curb spur of the moment shootings, and may be accidental, or simple premeditated ones. It would not stop a determined religious or fundamentalist fanatic, as guns can still be acquired even if banned. Plus, a complete ban on civilians owning guns is very unlikely to ever happen in the USA.

Why do you need to "stop" it? Why not just "lower" it? Like lower it with 90%.

And the fanatic, practice shows that a lot of times they take the easy road by using a knife, axe or bow.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#354

Post by daenz » Fri, Jul 08, 2022, 11:12 AM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #348

daenz wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The largest demographic (hundreds of millions of people), which you seem to have left out, is law abiding citizens looking to protect themselves and their families.

Protect themselves from what? Unhinged people with guns? Seems like recursion. People in other countries where guns are illegal seem to do just fine without having to protect themselves using their own firearms.

People in unarmed countries get stabbed/beaten/shot if their attacker is larger/stronger/younger than them. Here, older/weaker people have a chance to protect their lives. Firearms are frequently used defensively to stop attacks.

Here's a couple from the past 2 weeks:

https://abc7.com/moreno-valley-intruder-shot-homeowner-inves... https://www.wfla.com/news/pinellas-county/man-fatally-shot-a...

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#355

Post by cobbzilla » Fri, Jul 08, 2022, 11:32 AM UTC

Legogris wrote: post #258

Update from NHK: The apprehended suspect is identified as Tetsuya Yamagami (41), a Nara resident. According to sources from the defense ministry, he was employed by the Maritime Self-Defense Forces for ~3y until 2005. Weapon seems to be homemade. No updates on Abe's status since a 13:30 update from the local fire department. He's injured in chest- and neck areas, has internal bleeding and did not show vital signs. 14…

Actively evolving entry on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Shinzo_Abe

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#356

Post by CapricornNoble » Fri, Jul 08, 2022, 11:39 AM UTC

pawsforthought wrote: post #302

chii wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is that gun violence has several different categories, and gun control only helps some of them (such as accidental, or emotional, spur of the moment shootings), but doesn't prevent any premeditated ones. It will not stop people like the one at 4th july, nor those school shootings. Unless the gun control laws completely outlaw civilians owning guns - which i dont think will fly. The root cause of gun violence…

One very concrete action that requires no political will, would be for the media to stop giving a platform to the shooters. If any would be shooter clearly sees that their message will go unheard, that they will die in anonymity, I think that could deter at least some. Your point stands though, that the issue is societal.

Yeah, school shooters should just be described as "Anonymous Coward {$serialnumber}", with no picture shown or anything.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#357

Post by vlovich123 » Fri, Jul 08, 2022, 11:40 AM UTC

jclulow wrote: post #214

vlovich123 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how gun buy back programs work. Hint they don’t and never have. It’s the same as what happened to that town that tried to solve their rat problem by paying people to bring rat heads. Some enterprising townsfolk started breeding rats.

You have to ban them _and_ buy them back at the same time. You make them illegal to have, then you compensate people for the economic value of the property they now need to surrender for destruction. That is in fact how buyback schemes work in countries that aren't totally irrational about guns.

I clearly should have clarified. They don’t work in America where private gun ownership does not look like it’s ever going to get banned.

Also America isn’t land locked like Australia. The black market will have an easier time transporting the goods through South America. If that wasn’t the case, then drugs wouldn’t be as accessible here. And given US is the arms capital of the world (American manufacturers supply a significant amount of the arms used in conflicts), those guns will inevitably find their way back to America (conflict stops, owners need money more than weapons, etc). The bigger the conflict the cheaper the guns become.

Finally, Australia had a national moment of unity when they banned guns and so giving up your guns was a collective activity. That’s not the case in America.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#358

Post by kumarvvr » Fri, Jul 08, 2022, 11:58 AM UTC

jesterson wrote: post #318

kumarvvr wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. But give every Japanese a weapon. And then wait a few decades. Can you guarantee me that the culture will hold back gun violence?

I doubt anyone can "guarantee" how things will be developed in few decades. Noone knows for sure how the policy will transform societal relationships. Presence or absence of weapons doesn't affect if someone will use it or not. Getting or making a weapon is relatively easy task even in Japan. Growing a cohesive society where people use other means to cooperate instead of assaulting everyone who disagrees with their o…

> Presence or absence of weapons doesn't affect if someone will use it or not.

Yeah No. When weapons are absent, the probability of using a weapon is exactly 0.

When weapons are cheaply and easily available, the probability is definitely not 0.

Those who wish to create mayhem, can and will, get weapons one way or another. Happens all over the world. No amount of laws or severity of punishments can change that.

But, gun restrictions prevent impulsive actions, and actions or situations exacerbated by the false security that having a gun gives, or plain right idiots who don't know how to safely handle guns.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#359

Post by shadowgovt » Fri, Jul 08, 2022, 12:01 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #343

achenet wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. Access to powerful firearms vastly increases how damaging shootings are. Compare the single death in a decade for Japan to the hundreds, if not thousands of deaths per year from gun violence in the US[0] [1]. Keeping guns out of circulation reduces gun deaths. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r...

"It's the exception that proves the rule".

In this case, it proved both rules.

One of the ostensible purposes of the Second Amendment is for Americans to be able to hold their own government in check via the private capacity to cause violence.

Well, lacking anything even approximating a Second Amendment, an individual Japanese citizen just forced leadership change.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#360

Post by shadowgovt » Fri, Jul 08, 2022, 12:07 PM UTC

fennecfoxy wrote: post #333

cowtools wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a slippery slope to every state having restrictive NY-like gun laws. I don't care about legal or cultural precedent in germany or the EU. This isn't germany. The US plays a far more important role in global affairs, and as such must take more dramatic measures to prevent it from falling into the hands of some regime, those measures include the right to bear arms as well as freedom of speech and freedom of rel…

Lmao "the right to bear arms" domestically is going to what, stop a land invasion by Russia or something to the tune of that? Somehow, I don't think so. Instead it's just allowing you and yours to kill each other. As a Kiwi living in the UK: gun control works, it really does. Also, falling into a regime? Your current political atmosphere is that a regime of extremely conservative people who are pretty much the major…

This is basically a good take. The intent of the second amendment was multifaceted, but the most important aspect of it was probably that it allowed for a state level check on power of the federal government. Remember, all 10 amendments in the Bill of Rights were originally checks on federal power only. The second amendment was a distribution of the capacity for violence from a federal government that would need it (the Founders believed) occasionally for country-level protection to the individual states that were still extremely responsible for their own affairs and may not have ratified a Constitution that stripped them of the ability to defend themselves from threats.

But almost a hundred years later, the calculus changed when several States banded together and tried to dissolve the country by violence. As a consequence of the 14th Amendment, rights previously recognized only at the federal level became enforced at the state level as well. This creates a bit of a philosophical contradiction in the original intent of the Second Amendment to provide citizens States the capacity to defend themselves from overreaching federal power, and evolution of that contradiction is how we eventually got to the notion that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms independent of any particular military application of those arms, despite the word "militia" being in the amendment itself.