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Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

thedrive.com

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Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#281

Post by kadoban »

mwint wrote: post #280
kadoban wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any system based on a human doing nothing for long periods and then being expected to act swiftly and accurately is _deeply_ flawed. Human attention doesn't work like that. This is russian roulette with the general public forced to play.

So FSD beta testing has been around for what, a couple years? To continue the tortured analogy: We’ve been playing this Russian roulette for millions of miles. How many times to people have to be “almost” shot, but not actually shot, before we concede that maybe the gun has no bullets?

> How many times to people have to be “almost” shot, but not actually shot, before we concede that maybe the gun has no bullets?

You say that like we have anything like good data. We have pretty much what Tesla's marketing team put together on their website, and _maybe_ what some cities or states have cobbled together.

And before we assume that Telsa wouldn't lie, let's remember that they call this "Full Self-Driving".

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#282

Post by vardump »

enragedcacti wrote: post #235
martindbp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it hasn't impacted safety, there have been no known accidents so far with over 100k users. It's also the driver's responsibility to disengage at first sign of trouble, just like as it is on a freeway with cruise control on any other car. The problem is many of these Youtubers try to push the system to test its limits, and wait until the last second to disengage, or let it do the wrong thing (for clicks? look…

There are numerous FSD Beta crashes according to NHTSA complaints, including ones that occurred prior to Elon tweeting that none had occurred. https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1539607989937741825

Taylor Ogan is very biased against Tesla, and has a strong financial interest for Tesla to fail (TSLAQ). He's purportedly long BYD.

Not saying these incidents aren't real, but I'd really really want confirm these from a reliable source.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#283

Post by thomaskcr »

bitexploder wrote: post #169
ra7 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're led to believe all this public beta "testing" actually does something to improve the system. So they go out on roads, enable FSD and click the feedback button when it makes a mistake. It's pure theatre as it does nothing to a system fundamentally poor.

They /are/ the training data and trainers in a very literal sense. Every time they correct or take control over FSD I imagine it gets fed back into the training data. Will it ever create a fully self driving system? Maybe.

That's not true and Karpathy has confirmed it multiple times. They can create a fingerprint for data they want the system to feed back to the mothership and they may manually label datasets fed back through the report button on the MCU, but disengagements are not a signal they use at all.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#284

Post by thomaskcr »

electric_mayhem wrote: post #254
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can’t understand why you’d give up control to a system that’s clearly still in beta. The cost of failure is way too high to take the risk.

Straw man argument. Or, you know, maybe highly specific to lazy, edge-case idiots. Autopilot and fsd still both specifically require an attentive driver. Responsible adults who understand the systems will use them appropriately- and that might mean “not at all” in unusual/chaotic conditions. For the rest, there’s Darwin awards.

"People who believe the system they paid 10-12k for called 'full self driving' should be able to drive itself are idiots" is a pretty special class of Elon bootlicking.

People who understand the system don't buy it because they realize it's a scam, everyone who bought it was duped. The most valuable thing at Tesla is the list of rubes they have.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#285

Post by dawnerd »

beeboop wrote: post #279
petilon wrote: post #77

Meanwhile Cruise just obtained permission to charge passengers for driverless rides in San Francisco [1]. Cruise has been cleared to charge for rides in vehicles that will have no other people in them besides the passengers. There will be no back-up human driver present to take control if something goes wrong. Why is Tesla so far behind? Tesla is generating these autopilot mishap news on such a regular basis that it…

Tesla is far ahead. Cruise was literally in the news like 2 days ago because their entire fleet just stopped driving in the middle of an intersection and dozens of their staff had to drive out to the cars and manually take them back to the parking lot. Cruise works (except for when it doesn't) in extremely specific geofenced areas in very low traffic. Tesla works anywhere and in a lot more conditions.

I opted out of FSD because it doesn’t work. I don’t get how people can keep saying it works. It’s incredibly dangerous to say that.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#286

Post by thomaskcr »

beeboop wrote: post #279
petilon wrote: post #77

Meanwhile Cruise just obtained permission to charge passengers for driverless rides in San Francisco [1]. Cruise has been cleared to charge for rides in vehicles that will have no other people in them besides the passengers. There will be no back-up human driver present to take control if something goes wrong. Why is Tesla so far behind? Tesla is generating these autopilot mishap news on such a regular basis that it…

Tesla is far ahead. Cruise was literally in the news like 2 days ago because their entire fleet just stopped driving in the middle of an intersection and dozens of their staff had to drive out to the cars and manually take them back to the parking lot. Cruise works (except for when it doesn't) in extremely specific geofenced areas in very low traffic. Tesla works anywhere and in a lot more conditions.

Tesla is only far ahead in their willingness to take on risk and make at least partially untrue claims. There are multiple companies running actual robo-taxis in other cities but not a single city Tesla is running actual driverless vehicles. If Tesla was actually capable of running robo-taxis in one of the cities with the regulatory atmosphere they would, but they can't.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#287

Post by jaxn »

mellavora wrote: post #119
jaxn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of it in terms of I am still piloting the vehicle, but FSD is executing the maneuvers. This means that I am able to focus on the bigger picture (looking further forward, paying attention to what is going on in all lanes, etc). I am a MUCH safer driver with autopilot/FSD than without. So, to your devil's advocate, I am sure I would blame myself if my family member died while driving my car no matter what the c…

> I am still piloting the vehicle, but FSD is executing the maneuvers. Look, there are some things I really like about your reply, and I applaud your approach to this. My question is this: If you are the pilot, how do you communicate with the FSD to have it execute the maneuvers? What is the command interface? What is the level of "manouver" ("drive to the grocery store" vs "angle the front wheels 7 degrees to the le…

There are several ways to communicate:

- turn signal to initiate a turn. - scroll up/down on the right steering wheel control to increase/decrease max speed - left/right on the right steering wheel control to increase/decrease follow distance - nudge the gas pedal to be a little more aggressive (starting from a stop sign, executing a turn that FSD has already started signaling, etc - and sometimes I just take control via brake or stalk. I generally don't disengage with the wheel since that keeps the speed on auto.

As for when the loaner didn't stop, it didn't have FSD. So while it looked like my car, it didn't have the same features as my car (just basic autopilot, not FSD).

I have not had situations where FSD was engaged and failed to stop or brake from highway speeds.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#288

Post by mensetmanusman »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #97
mensetmanusman wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does matter how statistically safe it is. It’s possible for it to be not 100% reliable and still safer than many drivers who seem to be on their phone much of the time where I live.

It doesn't matter because of the ways it behaves on that small percentage where it behaves like a blue collar on a cocaïne bender on a Friday night. It doesn't slam itself into a tree like a drunk driver in the middle of the night, it is so unpredictably bad that i half expect to see reports telling me it tried to take a train line because it's a shortcut.

Humans are the same, still not sure why total safety statistics wouldn’t matter…

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#289

Post by [deleted] »

deng wrote: post #80

Actually, that steering into the oncoming train is just one of several severe instances in that video: * Almost driving right into a barrier because road is closed: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=426 * Choosing the wrong lane and getting confused: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=666 * Trying to run a red light, right into traffic: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=732 * Stopping in the middle of an intersection without r…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#290

Post by [deleted] »

electric_mayhem wrote: post #254
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can’t understand why you’d give up control to a system that’s clearly still in beta. The cost of failure is way too high to take the risk.

Straw man argument. Or, you know, maybe highly specific to lazy, edge-case idiots. Autopilot and fsd still both specifically require an attentive driver. Responsible adults who understand the systems will use them appropriately- and that might mean “not at all” in unusual/chaotic conditions. For the rest, there’s Darwin awards.

[deleted]
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