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Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

thedrive.com

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Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#271

Post by powerbroker »

FireBeyond wrote: post #260
deng wrote: post #80

Actually, that steering into the oncoming train is just one of several severe instances in that video: * Almost driving right into a barrier because road is closed: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=426 * Choosing the wrong lane and getting confused: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=666 * Trying to run a red light, right into traffic: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=732 * Stopping in the middle of an intersection without r…

Musk, every year for the last seven years now: "Full Self Driving is coming, this year." Not even close.

This is how he holds at bay the two factions of lawyers:

1) Those ready to file a misrepresentation or breach of warranty contract claims;

2) Those ready to file a products liability, wrongful death or failure to warn tort lawsuit.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#272

Post by gruez »

labrador wrote: post #270

Google asks me to solve CAPTCHA's of crossing walks and traffic lights because robots can't do it. Tesla self-driving AI can safely determine crosswalks and traffic lights. Which of these two statements are true?

> Google asks me to solve CAPTCHA's of crossing walks and traffic lights because robots can't do it.

Any evidence this premise is true? It's entirely possible that they perfected crosswalk/traffic light identification, and they're continuing to use it for captcha purposes because it's easier than rewriting the captcha to use another form of images.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#273

Post by linspace »

electric_mayhem wrote: post #265
FireBeyond wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "straw man!" claims ignore that for every 'safety' related comment or action Tesla has done, they've had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. First there was zero monitoring of attention. No steering wheel torque, nothing. Then when pushed and threatened they added it, and set the "hands on steering wheel" interval to "ONCE every fifteen MINUTES". Then they had to be threatened to reduce that to a sensib…

I covered all that. Someone abandons common sense and abdicates responsibility for themselves in favor of believing the hype from a money-crazed billionaire? Prime candidates for Darwin awards, whether they own a tesla or not.

We are terrible at maintaining 100% concentration over extended periods of time while nothing is happening. People fall asleep driving. The mind starts to wander. We get distracted by our children.

I don't think it's about believing the hype. It's about having a system put in place which encourages you to stop paying attention.

I do think there have been great improvements in car safety thanks to AI. My car self brakes if it detects a pedestrian while I'm in reverse. It flashes lights in my side mirrors if another vehicle passes by. I think those systems are safety first and if you buy a car they are the responsibility of the car maker and not the buyer. I don't think you would expect people checking the airplane model when taking a flight. It's the responsibility of the airline and the manufacturer.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#274

Post by labrador »

gruez wrote: post #272
labrador wrote: post #270

Google asks me to solve CAPTCHA's of crossing walks and traffic lights because robots can't do it. Tesla self-driving AI can safely determine crosswalks and traffic lights. Which of these two statements are true?

> Google asks me to solve CAPTCHA's of crossing walks and traffic lights because robots can't do it. Any evidence this premise is true? It's entirely possible that they perfected crosswalk/traffic light identification, and they're continuing to use it for captcha purposes because it's easier than rewriting the captcha to use another form of images.

Why would they crowd source image identification that is already solved? There are plenty of other images they need human help on.

Besides if robots can do it then someone would be using them to solve CAPTCHAs. I recently started using a VPN and now google asks me all the time to solve them before completing my search, so I'm assuming that robotically searching Google is something people want to do.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#275

Post by gruez »

labrador wrote: post #274
gruez wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google asks me to solve CAPTCHA's of crossing walks and traffic lights because robots can't do it. Any evidence this premise is true? It's entirely possible that they perfected crosswalk/traffic light identification, and they're continuing to use it for captcha purposes because it's easier than rewriting the captcha to use another form of images.

Why would they crowd source image identification that is already solved? There are plenty of other images they need human help on. Besides if robots can do it then someone would be using them to solve CAPTCHAs. I recently started using a VPN and now google asks me all the time to solve them before completing my search, so I'm assuming that robotically searching Google is something people want to do.

> Why would they crowd source image identification that is already solved? There are plenty of other images they need human help on.

Because they'll need to set up an entire pipeline to get those images into the system. Meanwhile pictures from streetview is plentiful and free (both in terms of licensing costs and development costs)

>Besides if robots can do it then someone would be using them to solve CAPTCHAs.

Maybe such models are in the hands of the top AI companies (ie. companies making autopilot systems), and they're not really interested in starting a side business of captcha bypass?

The other possibility is that they're already in the hands of bad guys, they're just putting it under wraps so they can monetize it and not get it detected. For instance there's this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/buster-captch..., so the idea isn't too far fetched.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#276

Post by sirsinsalot »

deng wrote: post #80

Actually, that steering into the oncoming train is just one of several severe instances in that video: * Almost driving right into a barrier because road is closed: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=426 * Choosing the wrong lane and getting confused: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=666 * Trying to run a red light, right into traffic: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=732 * Stopping in the middle of an intersection without r…

The issue with these AI systems is that the corner cases in the real-world can be fatal.

Humans are pretty good, on the whole, at dealing with corner cases.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#277

Post by annexrichmond »

pwpw wrote: post #39
rainsford wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No snark intended, but doesn't having to constantly pay attention and be ready to take over control negate a lot of the benefit of the self-driving features? It seems like you'd have to apply just as much mental energy to the task as if you were actually driving, so the only real benefit is that you don't have to physically make the motions. In fact in some ways it seems mentally worse, since when you're driving you…

Because your brain is freed up from taking in all of the data points for constantly steering and speeding up and slowing down, it's incredibly less exhausting. Instead, you can focus on observing a lot more of the road and capturing things that you previously would have been unable to focus on. It's not often it deviates from expected behavior and catches you off guard with some radically unpredictable maneuver. When…

Most new cars have Adaptive Cruise Control these days, often in base models, without the need to pay $12k that Tesla is charging now.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#278

Post by [deleted] »

belter wrote: post #109
ra7 wrote: post #106

Here is another idiot "testing" it out in front a school bus. The car wouldn't stop so he had to intervene: https://youtu.be/zQO6RJCUPEI?t=10 I'm continually surprised how it's still being allowed on public roads. Tesla claims it's not an autonomous system to regulators and refuses to provide any data, while marketing it as imminent Level 5 self driving. It seems like it will take someone to be seriously injured or d…

No it won't. The US is the land of regulatory capture. "A Tesla driver is charged in a crash involving Autopilot that killed 2 people": https://www.npr.org/2022/01/18/1073857310/tesla-autopilot-cr...

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#279

Post by beeboop »

petilon wrote: post #77

Meanwhile Cruise just obtained permission to charge passengers for driverless rides in San Francisco [1]. Cruise has been cleared to charge for rides in vehicles that will have no other people in them besides the passengers. There will be no back-up human driver present to take control if something goes wrong. Why is Tesla so far behind? Tesla is generating these autopilot mishap news on such a regular basis that it…

Tesla is far ahead. Cruise was literally in the news like 2 days ago because their entire fleet just stopped driving in the middle of an intersection and dozens of their staff had to drive out to the cars and manually take them back to the parking lot. Cruise works (except for when it doesn't) in extremely specific geofenced areas in very low traffic. Tesla works anywhere and in a lot more conditions.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#280

Post by mwint »

kadoban wrote: post #91
chrisseaton wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There have to be at least dozens of documented cases of this being unsafe. The human in the loop seems to catch the mistake just fine? Doesn't seem to be even remotely close to an accident?

Any system based on a human doing nothing for long periods and then being expected to act swiftly and accurately is _deeply_ flawed. Human attention doesn't work like that. This is russian roulette with the general public forced to play.

So FSD beta testing has been around for what, a couple years? To continue the tortured analogy: We’ve been playing this Russian roulette for millions of miles.

How many times to people have to be “almost” shot, but not actually shot, before we concede that maybe the gun has no bullets?

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