Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#211

Post by salawat » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:48 PM UTC

shagie wrote: post #115

kadoban wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it is that government regulation of new things is slow. Part of it is that Congress is barely functional, at best. Part of it is that Republicans are anti- the government doing anything useful. California has been making some noises about cracking down on this, there was a story on HN a few weeks back. My sense is that some people will need to die in a sensational way, that happens to go viral, before anythin…

(politicsish) The crafting of regulations (not laws) and their implementation is the domain of the agencies under the executive branch. This is where the scientists and researchers are hired - neither the legislative nor judicial branches routinely employ them. The funding of these agencies has been consistently cut back over the past decades resulting in a slower moving body and one that is not as able to employ exp…

Administrative law is a farce and clear violation of the intent expressed in the Constitution. When more laws are entering the books through the executive and judiciary than through the legislature, you've got a problem.

Congress sets executive agency scope. Not executive branch employees or judges out of force of habit.

If they want increased scope, best ask the People if that's alright, and get the People leaning on their legislators.

Bottom up. Not top down.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#212

Post by Someone » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:48 PM UTC

yladiz wrote: post #129

cloutchaser wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point should be you don't. You are giving live feedback to the most advanced ML learning system ever (probably). Which hopefully in a few years will actually work. You are not (currently) using an autonomous car. If you think so you are an idiot.

> You are not (currently) using an autonomous car. If you think so you are an idiot. Let's define autonomous as self driving. According to their marketing page[1]: > Tesla cars come standard with advanced hardware capable of providing Autopilot features, and full self-driving capabilities—through software updates designed to improve functionality over time. So it has capabilities of autonomous driving, which means a…

They phrase it weirdly (accidentally/possibly/probably/certainly (take your pick) in order to confuse the readers), but all that says is that they eventually will provide the software running on the hardware you buy today to actually do it.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#213

Post by enragedcacti » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:48 PM UTC

whiplash451 wrote: post #53

henrikschroder wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Supposedly the "important" people are still employed. Karpathy is still on a "sabbatical". The odds of him returning from that is pretty much zero.

Wait. Karpathy is on sabbatical? Says who?

"Btw, @karpathy is on a ~4 month sabbatical."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1508110810614181890

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#214

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #96

deng wrote: post #80

Actually, that steering into the oncoming train is just one of several severe instances in that video: * Almost driving right into a barrier because road is closed: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=426 * Choosing the wrong lane and getting confused: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=666 * Trying to run a red light, right into traffic: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=732 * Stopping in the middle of an intersection without r…

I just can’t understand why you’d give up control to a system that’s clearly still in beta. The cost of failure is way too high to take the risk.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#215

Post by jetbalsa » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:51 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #46

jetbalsa wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used a Comma 3 (somewhat close to FSD, just simpler) and I found that it allows to you look forward in time more then you normally would. Normally you might be looking at the first 50ft for issues, now I find I'm able to expand out to 200ft and look around more for traffic.

Not having that much situational awareness sounds super dangerous. 50 ft is way too little for safe driving.

It's not that I say 50ft is the only zone, but its my main focus, that and traffic around me (Mind you, this is all highway) With the Comma, it moves out a good bit, Allowing me to process more of the future traffic going on and the more edge cases that might come up at highway speeds. Also its vision and radar based so it keeps me 250ft+ from the car in front of me and keeps speed, it won't ever change lanes. This is why its more of a LKAS with better settings.

Of course there are cases the system doesn't work at all and is not well suited for surface roads very well.

Its behavior is very predictable and easy to feel when its seeing something I'm not. (Slowing down to match speed 1:1 with the car in front of me when they let off the gas is a common example)

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#216

Post by vardump » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:51 PM UTC

martindbp wrote: post #73

throwaway5959 wrote: post #27

Why is the US allowing this beta testing of a feature that impacts safety to continue? There have to be at least dozens of documented cases of this being unsafe. Have regulators just given up or are they that incompetent?

Because it hasn't impacted safety, there have been no known accidents so far with over 100k users. It's also the driver's responsibility to disengage at first sign of trouble, just like as it is on a freeway with cruise control on any other car. The problem is many of these Youtubers try to push the system to test its limits, and wait until the last second to disengage, or let it do the wrong thing (for clicks? look…

Exactly. There definitely are some scary Youtube videos, but how do you ban something that's apparently safer [0] than the average road user?

As far as I'm aware, there have been zero fatal FSD beta crashes. I hope it'll stay that way.

What would be your arguments as the governing body for a ban? I think you'd need some hard statistical evidence, random Youtube videos might not count.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#217

Post by salawat » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:51 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #71

throwaway5959 wrote: post #27

Why is the US allowing this beta testing of a feature that impacts safety to continue? There have to be at least dozens of documented cases of this being unsafe. Have regulators just given up or are they that incompetent?

> There have to be at least dozens of documented cases of this being unsafe. The human in the loop seems to catch the mistake just fine? Doesn't seem to be even remotely close to an accident?

This totally worked for 737 MAX. This one doesn't even have a well defined algorithm so it's behavior can be predicted ahead of time.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#218

Post by cpuguy83 » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:53 PM UTC

Key word here is "almost". No need to get bent out of shape, especially when the Tesla didn't.

/s

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#219

Post by carapace » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

dtho wrote: post #170

synu wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if the guy is an idiot or not but I personally wouldn't have handed the wheel over to an AI right next to a school bus in order to find out if it was going to run the kids over.

Seems like he had it under control, and was recording it in order to publicize the problem and possibly get it fixed.

If it was one of your kids getting off that school bus does that change your perception of the situation?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#220

Post by ncmncm » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #182

ncmncm wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The news report said "mostly". So, who is being dishonest?

Other coverage, like CNN, made it sound like the layoffs were concentrated along annotators. But your comment made me double-check the original reporting[1], which AFAICT says that the layoffs were both data evaluators and annotators. Granting you the pedantry point here, I hereby happily amend my comment to refer to "data [evaluators] and annotators", with zero impact on my point. > So, who is being dishonest? Not s…

If you complain about the quality of discussion, the onus is on you to be better. But, you are not better, or even as good. My original "important" was more accurate than your criticism taking it as an example of unfair dialog and, supposedly, correcting it.

But you do prove your point: discussion of the topic was here, with your comments, overall only a little better than your own contribution. Without, though, substantially better.