Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

thedrive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 328 posts

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#31

Post by kypro »

jaxn wrote: post #7

I used it every day and it does almost all of my daily driving. If it never improves from where it is now, it will be worth the $6k I paid for it. And yeah, you gotta watch it and pay attention.

I guess to pay devil's advocate here the question you need to be asking is if it would still be worth it if a loved one was driving your Tesla and they crashed because your Tesla drove them into a train.

Even if Tesla Autopilot was significantly safer than a human driver I know I would still struggle knowing a love one died because the AI in my car decide to make a really stupid (albeit unlikely) decision. Right or wrong, human error is something we've always tolerated in society. If you're using a power tool and injure yourself, so long as there is nothing that can be reasonably done to make that tool safer, it's on you. But if once in a blue moon the tool malfunctions and injures you, that is something we don't tolerate.

It seems Autopilot at the moment exists in this in-between place where the driver assumes full responsibility so all situations are considered human error even if the AI is clearly malfunctioning. The more advanced autopilot gets the more we're going to have to question whether it's reasonable for the driver to expect autopilot to malfunction and take full responsibility for their car's actions.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#32

Post by Hellbanevil »

jaxn wrote: post #7

I used it every day and it does almost all of my daily driving. If it never improves from where it is now, it will be worth the $6k I paid for it. And yeah, you gotta watch it and pay attention.

You are probally the exception.

A guy I know said the tech is so good you let your guard down.

He said there are days on 101 around 4:30 when he puts his sunglasses on and closes his eyes. He knows he taking a calculated risk. He's in bumper to bumper traffic.

He also said their were times he let the car drive home, with one eye open because he was tired.

With tech that good, I can see where drivers let their guard down compared to a guy in a old truck with a clutch. A vehicle he knows inside and out. A vehicle that needs his constant attention because of the sketchy alignment done years ago. Plus--he just can't afford a fender bender, or worse an ever increasing frantic fine. Hell--the stress of the old car might keep him more alert? Kinda like being in the woods when you know it's your wits, or a bear might tear you apart?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#33

Post by 988747 »

One thing about this video that caught my attention: around 14:40, Tesla is in the "forward" lane, but it tries to make a left turn. While I agree that this is against the rules, my experience with driving around a big city is: half of the human drivers would try to do the same, if they accidentally ended up in the wrong lane. So, if Tesla is using data captured while human is driving, can it pick up bad habits as well ?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#34

Post by jetbalsa »

rainsford wrote: post #24
jaxn wrote: post #7

I used it every day and it does almost all of my daily driving. If it never improves from where it is now, it will be worth the $6k I paid for it. And yeah, you gotta watch it and pay attention.

No snark intended, but doesn't having to constantly pay attention and be ready to take over control negate a lot of the benefit of the self-driving features? It seems like you'd have to apply just as much mental energy to the task as if you were actually driving, so the only real benefit is that you don't have to physically make the motions. In fact in some ways it seems mentally worse, since when you're driving you…

I used a Comma 3 (somewhat close to FSD, just simpler) and I found that it allows to you look forward in time more then you normally would. Normally you might be looking at the first 50ft for issues, now I find I'm able to expand out to 200ft and look around more for traffic.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#36

Post by AshamedCaptain »

rainsford wrote: post #24
jaxn wrote: post #7

I used it every day and it does almost all of my daily driving. If it never improves from where it is now, it will be worth the $6k I paid for it. And yeah, you gotta watch it and pay attention.

No snark intended, but doesn't having to constantly pay attention and be ready to take over control negate a lot of the benefit of the self-driving features? It seems like you'd have to apply just as much mental energy to the task as if you were actually driving, so the only real benefit is that you don't have to physically make the motions. In fact in some ways it seems mentally worse, since when you're driving you…

Worse: it's like driving with an alien driver. The teenage driver at least shares your language and some "human" cognitive patterns with you. You may communicate with it, you may receive its feedback, and you may even understand when he struggles with something so that you pay more attention to correct him (i.e. because it's highly likely he struggles at the same places you do)

No such luck with this ridiculous software. An incoming train that any human (with normal sight) would have no problems to detect? The car drives right into it. You literally have to pay full attention during even the simplest of situations because there is no way to understand how this piece of software actually thinks, much less to predict how it will misbehave.

Today it's an incoming train that's painted white, tomorrow is a cricket on the road that causes it swerve onto oncoming traffic, or a small paint chip on a traffic sign that causes the OCR to read "speed limit 200" instead of 20.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#37

Post by charles_kaw »

makeworld wrote: post #35
mountainriver wrote: post #30

The fact that this can be solved using LiDAR, just seems irresponsible to not

Oh man, they're not using lidar? I had no idea, that's crazy they're just putting cars on the road just cameras and AI. Jeez.

they even removed front facing radar a few years back, to save on cost

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#38

Post by kordlessagain »

ncmncm wrote: post #2

??? I thought that was what it was for. Or maybe for making wacky collision vids on YouTube? Tesla just closed their whole self-driving office in San Mateo, and fired ("for poor performance") most of the staff, directing some to come to work across the bay. For now. People still employed on that activity would best update their résumés. People who paid for self-driving already? I would ask for a refund, in your shoes…

> Or maybe for making wacky collision vids on YouTube?

Don't forget the "shocked" expression poses for the thumbnails. :O

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#39

Post by pwpw »

rainsford wrote: post #24
jaxn wrote: post #7

I used it every day and it does almost all of my daily driving. If it never improves from where it is now, it will be worth the $6k I paid for it. And yeah, you gotta watch it and pay attention.

No snark intended, but doesn't having to constantly pay attention and be ready to take over control negate a lot of the benefit of the self-driving features? It seems like you'd have to apply just as much mental energy to the task as if you were actually driving, so the only real benefit is that you don't have to physically make the motions. In fact in some ways it seems mentally worse, since when you're driving you…

Because your brain is freed up from taking in all of the data points for constantly steering and speeding up and slowing down, it's incredibly less exhausting. Instead, you can focus on observing a lot more of the road and capturing things that you previously would have been unable to focus on. It's not often it deviates from expected behavior and catches you off guard with some radically unpredictable maneuver. When driving longer distances between cities, it's a night and day difference compared to my car that only has radar cruise control but still requires steering. Perhaps it's something you have to experience firsthand to truly see how much less exhausting of an experience it is.

By taking away throttle control and steering, you leave yourself with only decision making. It's reducing major components of normal driving behavior. It's not perfect, but knowing its strengths and weaknesses allows for better driving in my opinion.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#40

Post by jaxn »

nhooyr wrote: post #29
jaxn wrote: post #7

I used it every day and it does almost all of my daily driving. If it never improves from where it is now, it will be worth the $6k I paid for it. And yeah, you gotta watch it and pay attention.

But is the base lane keep adaptive cruise control not enough? What additions are worth $6k to you?

It used to be close, but not anymore. I am in the beta, so we are talking door-to-door navigation with turns, stops, starts, etc.

Stopping at stop signs / red lights is the biggest game changer. But all of the driving stuff is useful.

Post reply on HN