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Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

thedrive.com

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Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#141

Post by belter »

petilon wrote: post #111
belter wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably, these regulators are the same, that allowed this Tesla very alpha software to be tested on public roads. Also from your own reference it does not seem like Cruise capabilities are much above an amusement park level toy ride: "...The regulators issued the permit despite safety concerns arising from Cruise's inability to pick up and drop off passengers at the curb in its autonomous taxis, requiring the vehi…

Yeah but how often do you see negative stories about Cruise and Waymo? Where lives are endangered? The story about cars stopped in the middle of a street doesn't count since lives were not in danger.

Does Cruise on Cruise crash counts?

"A Cruise-on-Cruise Crash Reveals the Hardest Thing About Self-Driving Tech": https://www.wired.com/story/cruise-on-cruise-crash-hardest-t...

In this case a Cruise car was rear ended by a Cruise car driven by a human, because their unsophisticated software makes for the car to break hard. As explained in the article:

"...That said, the rear-endings demonstrate that the technology is far from perfect. Cruise cars follow road laws to a T, coming to full stops at stop signs and braking for yellow lights. But human drivers don’t—and Cruise cars will be self-driving among humans for decades to come..."

"...The fact that a driver Cruise trained to work with these vehicles still managed to rear-end one emphasizes exactly how flawed they are..."

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#142

Post by tintor »

petilon wrote: post #77

Meanwhile Cruise just obtained permission to charge passengers for driverless rides in San Francisco [1]. Cruise has been cleared to charge for rides in vehicles that will have no other people in them besides the passengers. There will be no back-up human driver present to take control if something goes wrong. Why is Tesla so far behind? Tesla is generating these autopilot mishap news on such a regular basis that it…

Why do you believe that Tesla is behind?

Tesla is selling a large number of vehicles with FSD, used across a large operational design domain.

Cruise isn't selling cars. Small fleet, that can operate at limited hours at night, at limited locations in San Francisco. Small scale and limited operational design domain compared to Tesla's.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#143

Post by LtWorf »

jliptzin wrote: post #130
petilon wrote: post #77

Meanwhile Cruise just obtained permission to charge passengers for driverless rides in San Francisco [1]. Cruise has been cleared to charge for rides in vehicles that will have no other people in them besides the passengers. There will be no back-up human driver present to take control if something goes wrong. Why is Tesla so far behind? Tesla is generating these autopilot mishap news on such a regular basis that it…

If we’re going to try to have autonomous vehicles, at some point these things have to be tested on real roads. Would you rather have a real human behind the wheel to take over in an instant or just have the computer plow through whatever if there’s a bug? When you are driving tesla “autopilot” you are still liable for everything the car does, you still need to be attentive just like you normally would. If the car cra…

You get way more distracted if you are doing nothing rather than if you're actually doing something. So I'd expect the reaction times for people to stop an autopilot from killing them are actually much higher than the reaction times of a driver.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#144

Post by synu »

aiisjustanif wrote: post #133
ra7 wrote: post #106

Here is another idiot "testing" it out in front a school bus. The car wouldn't stop so he had to intervene: https://youtu.be/zQO6RJCUPEI?t=10 I'm continually surprised how it's still being allowed on public roads. Tesla claims it's not an autonomous system to regulators and refuses to provide any data, while marketing it as imminent Level 5 self driving. It seems like it will take someone to be seriously injured or d…

Why is the guy an idiot?

I don't know if the guy is an idiot or not but I personally wouldn't have handed the wheel over to an AI right next to a school bus in order to find out if it was going to run the kids over.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#145

Post by LtWorf »

mancerayder wrote: post #43

The comments are a pile-on of criticism and how can this be legal. The question is what percentage of self driving hours lead to a situation like this, is it high enough to determine it's unsafe compared to non autopilot or statistically an outlier?

Just watch the video… he had to intervene several times in the same single drive.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#146

Post by belter »

verisimi wrote: post #103
deng wrote: post #80

Actually, that steering into the oncoming train is just one of several severe instances in that video: * Almost driving right into a barrier because road is closed: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=426 * Choosing the wrong lane and getting confused: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=666 * Trying to run a red light, right into traffic: https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=732 * Stopping in the middle of an intersection without r…

Jeez.. everyone's a critic... Tesla's got this! /s

The most sad and ironic about your comment, is that had you not added the /s tag, a few on this thread would assume you were serious :-)

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#147

Post by dopamean »

aiisjustanif wrote: post #133
ra7 wrote: post #106

Here is another idiot "testing" it out in front a school bus. The car wouldn't stop so he had to intervene: https://youtu.be/zQO6RJCUPEI?t=10 I'm continually surprised how it's still being allowed on public roads. Tesla claims it's not an autonomous system to regulators and refuses to provide any data, while marketing it as imminent Level 5 self driving. It seems like it will take someone to be seriously injured or d…

Why is the guy an idiot?

Presumably because he knew what was going to happen and did it anyway.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#148

Post by wutbrodo »

petilon wrote: post #77

Meanwhile Cruise just obtained permission to charge passengers for driverless rides in San Francisco [1]. Cruise has been cleared to charge for rides in vehicles that will have no other people in them besides the passengers. There will be no back-up human driver present to take control if something goes wrong. Why is Tesla so far behind? Tesla is generating these autopilot mishap news on such a regular basis that it…

Because they don't have Lidar. They're just attempting to solve a completely different problem, which is much harder. IMO it's a horribly irresponsible approach

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#149

Post by coryrc »

jacquesm wrote: post #46
jetbalsa wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used a Comma 3 (somewhat close to FSD, just simpler) and I found that it allows to you look forward in time more then you normally would. Normally you might be looking at the first 50ft for issues, now I find I'm able to expand out to 200ft and look around more for traffic.

Not having that much situational awareness sounds super dangerous. 50 ft is way too little for safe driving.

Every day I drive, I see dozens of incidents where I think someone should be ticketed for reckless driving: tailgating, excessive speed, unexpected lane changes, etc

They never, ever are. We do not enforce good driving except after people die (or even then, vehicular homicide has low sentences).

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#150

Post by caylus »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #36
rainsford wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No snark intended, but doesn't having to constantly pay attention and be ready to take over control negate a lot of the benefit of the self-driving features? It seems like you'd have to apply just as much mental energy to the task as if you were actually driving, so the only real benefit is that you don't have to physically make the motions. In fact in some ways it seems mentally worse, since when you're driving you…

Worse: it's like driving with an alien driver. The teenage driver at least shares your language and some "human" cognitive patterns with you. You may communicate with it, you may receive its feedback, and you may even understand when he struggles with something so that you pay more attention to correct him (i.e. because it's highly likely he struggles at the same places you do) No such luck with this ridiculous softw…

> An incoming train that any human (with normal sight) would have no problems to detect?

To be fair, failing to yield to oncoming traffic when turning left is an extremely common mistake for human drivers to make as well.

In fact, earlier in the video, the car correctly yielded to an oncoming car, the human driver overrode it, then complained that the oncoming car "cut him off"! https://youtu.be/yxX4tDkSc_g?t=494

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