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Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

theguardian.com

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Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#341

Post by imtringued »

NickRandom wrote: post #119
mellavora wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, sorry. Study history. Weed was criminalized as a mechanism for white people to control black people, because weed was a Mexican and black person drug when those laws were enacted. It's all in the arguments in favor of the criminalization laws when they were passed. nothing to do with the Protestant Work Ethic. Sorry if the phrase "black person" is offensive, none is meant.

Hmm. Perhaps we studied different histories? As far as I was aware, the criminalization of weed was related to hemp being a competitor to the wood/paper industry. https://greathemp.net/why-hemp-was-banned-in-1937/

For me hemp has always been an incredibly valuable industrial crop. It is an amazing construction material. One hectare of hemp is enough to grow material for a single family home every year.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#342

Post by imtringued »

lbotos wrote: post #95
mellavora wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, sorry. Study history. Weed was criminalized as a mechanism for white people to control black people, because weed was a Mexican and black person drug when those laws were enacted. It's all in the arguments in favor of the criminalization laws when they were passed. nothing to do with the Protestant Work Ethic. Sorry if the phrase "black person" is offensive, none is meant.

I think you missed the point. Protestant work ethic does not want people "being lazy". In that era when workers were Black and Mexican and smoking, protestant work ethic is what is making white people in power want to stop people from having a little escape.

The point of the protestant work ethic is about splitting society into lazy and hard working.

Any sane person knows that people should decide how much division of labor they want for themselves.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#343

Post by Nextgrid »

aikah wrote: post #199

It's crazy we are still having these kind of debates in Europe. 20 years ago most youth around 18/20 thought Cannabis would have already been legalised by now, I don't believe one second that any of the European elected official under 50 never smoked pot. The only possible explanation I see is heavy lobbying from big pharma groups or wine interests.

> The only possible explanation I see is heavy lobbying from big pharma groups or wine interests.

More likely law enforcement.

The criminalization of drugs provides an endless supply of criminals of various levels (from the drug production/distribution itself to weapons and violence used to defend the illegal operation) and thus generates endless amounts of work for all kinds of people involved in law enforcement, from police to prisons to various subcontractors providing goods/services used by the aforementioned entities.

Most of those are not criminals because they want to hurt people or break the law on purpose and thus will no longer be criminals when drugs are legalized (instead of switching to another crime to remain a criminal). Thus, the second it's legalized, the "demand" for law enforcement services drops dramatically, and the crimes that do remain will require more effort to solve than your typical drug case.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#344

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

grapeskin wrote: post #150
tommit wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick question for our Dutch neighbors: why not? I never understood why it is exactly that The Netherlands were kind of against the drug tourism. I mean, I'm sure your average pot head tourist is not that much trouble and leaves quite a bit of money, no? I studied in The Netherlands and always thought I'd be proud as a country to be that "progressive" in a sense -- especially once it became clear that other countries…

Countries with loads of tourists have loads of trouble with them. Those problems are amplified when you’re flooded with college kids who are away from home for the first time and getting high for only the first or second time of their life. I guess there was enough trouble that some people thought it was worth trying to cut back on. Money isn’t everything

The Dutch also have an incredibly advanced information/agriculture/tech/corp economy. I'm no expert on this but I'm pretty sure that the money from the tourism might not be as much to the Dutch as we would like to think.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#345

Post by Nextgrid »

seper8 wrote: post #82

Hope so. Here in the Netherlands we've fallen hilariously behind. It's illegal to produce weed with the intention to sell, but legal to sell. At the same time it's illegal to have a large inventory. So criminals make large amounts of cash by illegally growing weed. And cops have to waste their time dealing with these guys. Eventually these guys grow up and start with the more profitable stuff such as cocaine & mdma.…

> cops have to waste their time dealing with these guys.

Maybe they don't "waste" their time, and instead enjoy job security and an endless supply of easy crimes to solve?

I suspect law enforcement is a big reason why drug legalization is hard.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#346

Post by withinboredom »

nostromo wrote: post #338
wickedsight wrote: post #40

The Netherlands will be especially impacted by this. We refused actual legalization for many reasons, many of which will be invalidated by Germany decriminalizing. Our current stance on weed is so confusing that it's hard to explain to any foreigner, but strictly speaking weed isn't legal and not even decriminalized... But yes, Amsterdam is in The Netherlands.

This sounds like the confusing US laws. Cannabis is illegal ( very illegal) nationally. But several states decided to stop prosecuting these crimes, and the states do most of the policing in the US - so it’s all but legal in many states. I wish there was a legal standard whereby if the state stops prosecuting a law, the law automatically can be invalidated by a court. We have lots of things that are illegal that are…

> the law automatically can be invalidated by a court.

There are three parts to the law:

1. The legislature must draft the law

2. The executives must enforce the law.

3. The judicial must punish for breaking the law.

If (2) never happens, then it never gets to (3). And courts can "invalidate" a law: jury nullification.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#347

Post by idleproc »

cronix wrote: post #340
tcmart14 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since growing weed is purely done by criminals right now, we're also afraid to legalize because legal weed farms might get issues with criminal involvement or threat because the criminals lose a huge income source. If we don't legalize however when Germany does, we'll then get a bunch of trafficking from Germany to the Netherlands. Oregon legalized weed and this hasn't been a huge problem. But if people fear it is,…

I'm in Oregon as well. There have been many news stories in Southern Oregon about the large cartel operations that are bigger than before legalization, because now they more or less blend in with the legal growers. They also involved trafficked humans to work there with passports withheld. Some of the increase has been attributed to California's drought, so they're moving north to greener pastures, so to speak. The i…

Why is this the case though?

Take coffee for instance, it's widely grown in South America--is most of the production run by cartels?

Or is it just that cannabis is a high-value crop, and it's easier to move the produce around the USA from within, rather than having to smuggle it over the border?

And if cannabis is a high-value crop, is it because not all states have 'legalised' it?

What if the whole world legalised cannabis, would it become like coffee?

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#348

Post by briffle »

fabian2k wrote: post #5

Germany has lots of borders to several european countries, once it is legal here there is probably no realistic way to efficiently control the transfer across borders.

The largest volume dipensary in the state of Oregon is just a few miles from the Idaho border, where its still illegal, and only 45 min from Boise.

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#349

Post by sam345 »

ssfhsfhdjs wrote: post #205
snarfy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I lived in Arizona before it was legal, the vast majority of weed came from Mexico. A quarter pound cost $200 and was a mix of male and female plants, full of seeds, grown in fields. I was a daily user for about 20 years. I moved to coastal state where it was legal. Now it's all hydroponically grown, all female and all seedless. I was a daily user for about 12 years and had to completely stop using it. It would…

I'm struggling with this now. Daily cannabis user for 15 year or so, started puking not long after I'd switched primarily to concentrates. I've landed in the ER several times, and been hospitalized a handful of times for dehydration. Usually once an episode starts, a cocktail of ativan, reglan, and pepcid is about the only thing that'll get me out of it. I've tried to quit cannabis several times now, but usually brea…

And this is good to legalize?

Re: Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘domino effect’

#350

Post by yc-kraln »

Coming a bit late to the party, but one aspect of this is that there is already massive usage of cannabis in Germany, and in many areas quite a significant amount is decriminalized.

In recent years, however, crappy cannabis adulterated with synthetic cannaboids have become pervasive--they're inferior to the real stuff, addictive, and deeply connected with organized crime. Legalization will likely result in a safer supply for everyone, while also removing a huge money source for criminals.

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