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Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

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Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#61

Post by dylangs1030 »

bmac27 wrote: post #48
dylangs1030 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an over-simplified solution to a complicated problem. Organized crime would change, not cease to exist. Countries where prostitution is legal still see organized abuses in the industry, like brothel owners not following regulations, etc. Moreover, marijuana has the highest likelihood of being legalized of any drug (still not likely) and yet, it is the lowest profit margin for organized crime. Cocaine, ecstasy…

"Countries where prostitution is legal still see organized abuses in the industry, like brothel owners not following regulations, etc." There are organized abuses in every industry, legal or not. We're not scrapping the insurance market because of the schemes that go on between doctors, lawyers & individuals looking to make a buck through phoney claims.

That is true, and while I used prostitution as an example, I personally don't see why it should be illegal. However heroin addiction is not the same as corporations and governments lobbying in cahoots. Drugs aren't really viable for an effective lifestyle - at least, not the ones organized crime profits the most on. Even prescription drugs like Vicodin were nearly pulled off the market because of how dangerous they are, even when used correctly and in moderation.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#62

Post by AJ007 »

rdl wrote: post #20
forensic wrote: post #11

It's difficult to wage an information war with gangsters. The ones who get to the top by killing and torturing are not likely to be threatened by having a few emails released. All the shit runs downhill to the relatively innocent civilians being extorted by the gangsters. If knowledge of who the crime bosses are was enough to take them down, they would not exist in the first place. Organized crime does not require se…

The only way to fight criminals at a scale where they threaten the state is through intelligence and military techniques, not law enforcement. Find them, build up decent evidence, kill them; don't try to prosecute. The risk is turning into a star chamber or right wing paramilitary, but I would trust the professionalism and morality of an organization like the us military to resist that. Plan Colombia worked out ok, c…

Plan Colombia worked = the problems in Mexico right now.

The only way to fight criminals is to get them to go to another neighborhood.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#63

Post by AJ007 »

sliverstorm wrote: post #51
Joakal wrote: post #25

Interesting that they would cancel when many other de-centralised organisations would be pretty resilient. In fact, losing a member to the enemy would cause an outcry and drive more to join the cause. eg Taliban, Al Qaeda, IRA, guerrillas, and more. Whoever cancelled the operation just confirmed to the adversaries that they're easy to squash and immediately put the cause at risk. Adversaries are now more confident to…

Anonymous is not a paramilitary group. I doubt their members are willing to put their life on the line for the cause. Decentralized paramilitary groups are hard to fight because you can track down & kill members without hurting the group- not because you cannot track down & kill members.

I would say that being involved in hacking that would result in your becoming a felon, getting extradited, and/or going to jail for over 5 years qualifies as putting your life on the line.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#64

Post by munin »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #57
mdda wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profit margins should be expected to be proportionate to illegality : Since the threat of punishment forces vibrant competition out of the market. Similarly, one can track the effectiveness of the war on drugs by looking at the street prices of drugs over time. If the war was effective, prices would be rising. Unfortunately, basic economic theory shows that the war on drugs is a complete failure.

Right. And like I said, it might be a fiscal improvement to legalize drugs. You could earn money from it. But, and i mean this in all sincerity, do you want to live in a society where they're freely accessible?

It's entirely possible that you do already live in such a society

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#65

Post by eipipuz »

AJ007 wrote: post #62
rdl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to fight criminals at a scale where they threaten the state is through intelligence and military techniques, not law enforcement. Find them, build up decent evidence, kill them; don't try to prosecute. The risk is turning into a star chamber or right wing paramilitary, but I would trust the professionalism and morality of an organization like the us military to resist that. Plan Colombia worked out ok, c…

Plan Colombia worked = the problems in Mexico right now. The only way to fight criminals is to get them to go to another neighborhood.

That's not accurate. the people and the way they work, is completely different. When colombia had problems, Mexico already was in its own track.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#66

Post by robotresearcher »

Avshalom wrote: post #52
nikatwork wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People drink and take drugs because they enjoy it. What illegal activity are you proposing people will seek if drugs are medicinalized/legalized? Saying "oh they'll just move on" is a bit hand-wavey.

Gun running, human trafficking, political corruption, extortion, kidnapping, straight up stealing shit, fencing, counterfeiting. You know all those crimes that aren't substance based. And depending on the terms of legalization, I'm sure drugs would always be a small part, whether that be black market to avoid taxes or prescription drugs.

None of these things is as profitable as drugs. Tens of dollars per gram, of stuff that grows in the forest and requires but a little processing. There's nothing so profitable to move on to.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#67

Post by TheEzEzz »

humbledrone wrote: post #55
tsotha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're underestimating the reach of these cartels. I doubt they have the resources to find hackers, but they do have people feeding them information from inside the Mexican and US governments. Also, the Anonymous people have made themselves a pain in the ass to governments who have the resources to find them. Even if the cartels don't have ears in the right place it's not hard for me to imagine a list of prob…

> I doubt they have the resources to find hackers. The Los Zetas cartel, being the second largest cartel in Mexico, probably has revenues of well over a billion dollars per year. (It's estimated that the overall earnings of all Mexican drug smugglers is $13-40 billion.) I'm pretty sure that's enough money to hire a hacker or two.

You need more than money if you're buying something illegally. You also need a certain amount of sophistication to know you're getting what you want.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#68

Post by sliverstorm »

AJ007 wrote: post #63
sliverstorm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anonymous is not a paramilitary group. I doubt their members are willing to put their life on the line for the cause. Decentralized paramilitary groups are hard to fight because you can track down & kill members without hurting the group- not because you cannot track down & kill members.

I would say that being involved in hacking that would result in your becoming a felon, getting extradited, and/or going to jail for over 5 years qualifies as putting your life on the line.

"Men with guns will come and arrest you because you broke esoteric law" seems very surreal and a lot less intimidating than "Men with guns will come and kill you because you pissed them off".

Don't forget the part where the Zetas have set a very, very strong precedent, while the FBI haven't. I can say even for myself I would take the FBI over the Zetas any day of the week.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#69

Post by ruethewhirled »

rdl wrote: post #20
forensic wrote: post #11

It's difficult to wage an information war with gangsters. The ones who get to the top by killing and torturing are not likely to be threatened by having a few emails released. All the shit runs downhill to the relatively innocent civilians being extorted by the gangsters. If knowledge of who the crime bosses are was enough to take them down, they would not exist in the first place. Organized crime does not require se…

The only way to fight criminals at a scale where they threaten the state is through intelligence and military techniques, not law enforcement. Find them, build up decent evidence, kill them; don't try to prosecute. The risk is turning into a star chamber or right wing paramilitary, but I would trust the professionalism and morality of an organization like the us military to resist that. Plan Colombia worked out ok, c…

"I would trust the professionalism and morality of an organization like the us military"

Are you being sarcastic when you say that?

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#70

Post by robotresearcher »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #57
mdda wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profit margins should be expected to be proportionate to illegality : Since the threat of punishment forces vibrant competition out of the market. Similarly, one can track the effectiveness of the war on drugs by looking at the street prices of drugs over time. If the war was effective, prices would be rising. Unfortunately, basic economic theory shows that the war on drugs is a complete failure.

Right. And like I said, it might be a fiscal improvement to legalize drugs. You could earn money from it. But, and i mean this in all sincerity, do you want to live in a society where they're freely accessible?

In Portugal society didn't go to hell when they decriminalized many drugs.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.ht...

Please realize that drugs are very accessible right now.

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