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Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

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Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#41

Post by nikatwork »

handelaar wrote: post #35
tjmc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or end the futile prohibition on drugs and tax them instead. Worked for alcohol.

For values of 'worked for alcohol' that include 'moved world's largest criminal organisation into non-alcohol-related activity without impacting its organisational capacity one jot'.

People drink and take drugs because they enjoy it.

What illegal activity are you proposing people will seek if drugs are medicinalized/legalized? Saying "oh they'll just move on" is a bit hand-wavey.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#42

Post by mdda »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #36
tjmc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or end the futile prohibition on drugs and tax them instead. Worked for alcohol.

That is an over-simplified solution to a complicated problem. Organized crime would change, not cease to exist. Countries where prostitution is legal still see organized abuses in the industry, like brothel owners not following regulations, etc. Moreover, marijuana has the highest likelihood of being legalized of any drug (still not likely) and yet, it is the lowest profit margin for organized crime. Cocaine, ecstasy…

Profit margins should be expected to be proportionate to illegality : Since the threat of punishment forces vibrant competition out of the market.

Similarly, one can track the effectiveness of the war on drugs by looking at the street prices of drugs over time. If the war was effective, prices would be rising. Unfortunately, basic economic theory shows that the war on drugs is a complete failure.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#44

Post by sliverstorm »

gyardley wrote: post #32
rdl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to fight criminals at a scale where they threaten the state is through intelligence and military techniques, not law enforcement. Find them, build up decent evidence, kill them; don't try to prosecute. The risk is turning into a star chamber or right wing paramilitary, but I would trust the professionalism and morality of an organization like the us military to resist that. Plan Colombia worked out ok, c…

Decent evidence often isn't. Remember those 'weapons of mass destruction' in Iraq? 4,482 dead American soldiers and counting. I'm not saying these gangs aren't full of horrible people, and I'm not saying all branches of the US government and military aren't perfectly good intentioned and well-meaning people, but mistakes do get made - which is why we need some judicial oversight here. We've already got one war on an…

Well, on the other hand what are the costs of doing nothing in Mexico? What price do the Mexican people pay? This situation is a little different than the twin towers.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#45

Post by mdda »

redthrowaway wrote: post #17
cpeterso wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we know this op was announced by the "real" Anonymous? How long until the CIA is posing as Anonymous to incite rebellion in other countries (and/or make Anonymous look bad)?

I think that's severely overestimating the power of Anonymous. The CIA has tried, tested, and true methods for inciting rebellions and coups; no need to invoke Anon. As for making Anonymous look bad... maybe. I find it hard to believe they view anon as a legitimate threat, but NATO did call out anon specifically in one of its reports on growing threats, so who knows.

Or look at it the other way around, maybe the CIA is using really bad dudes to take out Anonymous (or at least muffle them). An ISP may successfully defend themselves against a subpoena, but I have less confidence in them holding out vs a hammer.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#46

Post by [deleted] »

nikatwork wrote: post #41
handelaar wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For values of 'worked for alcohol' that include 'moved world's largest criminal organisation into non-alcohol-related activity without impacting its organisational capacity one jot'.

People drink and take drugs because they enjoy it. What illegal activity are you proposing people will seek if drugs are medicinalized/legalized? Saying "oh they'll just move on" is a bit hand-wavey.

[deleted]

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#47

Post by sliverstorm »

mdda wrote: post #42
dylangs1030 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an over-simplified solution to a complicated problem. Organized crime would change, not cease to exist. Countries where prostitution is legal still see organized abuses in the industry, like brothel owners not following regulations, etc. Moreover, marijuana has the highest likelihood of being legalized of any drug (still not likely) and yet, it is the lowest profit margin for organized crime. Cocaine, ecstasy…

Profit margins should be expected to be proportionate to illegality : Since the threat of punishment forces vibrant competition out of the market. Similarly, one can track the effectiveness of the war on drugs by looking at the street prices of drugs over time. If the war was effective, prices would be rising. Unfortunately, basic economic theory shows that the war on drugs is a complete failure.

You seem to think drugs are the only things sold on the black market.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#48

Post by bmac27 »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #36
tjmc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or end the futile prohibition on drugs and tax them instead. Worked for alcohol.

That is an over-simplified solution to a complicated problem. Organized crime would change, not cease to exist. Countries where prostitution is legal still see organized abuses in the industry, like brothel owners not following regulations, etc. Moreover, marijuana has the highest likelihood of being legalized of any drug (still not likely) and yet, it is the lowest profit margin for organized crime. Cocaine, ecstasy…

"Countries where prostitution is legal still see organized abuses in the industry, like brothel owners not following regulations, etc."

There are organized abuses in every industry, legal or not. We're not scrapping the insurance market because of the schemes that go on between doctors, lawyers & individuals looking to make a buck through phoney claims.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#49

Post by mdda »

tsotha wrote: post #22
lizzard wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they probably won't bother to trace actual Anonymous folks exposing this information but may end up targeting random people who are into computers, or even heavy social media users.

I think you're underestimating the reach of these cartels. I doubt they have the resources to find hackers, but they do have people feeding them information from inside the Mexican and US governments. Also, the Anonymous people have made themselves a pain in the ass to governments who have the resources to find them. Even if the cartels don't have ears in the right place it's not hard for me to imagine a list of prob…

> I doubt they have the resources to find hackers

Hey kid : People tell me you're the smartest computer guy in your year. My friends know where your mother lives. Please help me find some of these "hackers".

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#50

Post by sliverstorm »

hugh3 wrote: post #27
cpeterso wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we know this op was announced by the "real" Anonymous? How long until the CIA is posing as Anonymous to incite rebellion in other countries (and/or make Anonymous look bad)?

Since when is there a "real" Anonymous? Heck, I went to an anti-scientology protest one time, surely that gives me as much of a right as anybody to claim to be Anonymous.

It's heavy with irony, but it is suspected there are a few masterminds with the "keys to the kingdom" of Anonymous- for example, the twitter feed- and anything not publicly endorsed by those sacred sources is not considered to be "the true Anonymous".

Again, yes, I see the irony in that.

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