Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 162 posts

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#51

Post by sliverstorm »

Joakal wrote: post #25

Interesting that they would cancel when many other de-centralised organisations would be pretty resilient. In fact, losing a member to the enemy would cause an outcry and drive more to join the cause. eg Taliban, Al Qaeda, IRA, guerrillas, and more. Whoever cancelled the operation just confirmed to the adversaries that they're easy to squash and immediately put the cause at risk. Adversaries are now more confident to…

Anonymous is not a paramilitary group. I doubt their members are willing to put their life on the line for the cause.

Decentralized paramilitary groups are hard to fight because you can track down & kill members without hurting the group- not because you cannot track down & kill members.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#52

Post by Avshalom »

nikatwork wrote: post #41
handelaar wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For values of 'worked for alcohol' that include 'moved world's largest criminal organisation into non-alcohol-related activity without impacting its organisational capacity one jot'.

People drink and take drugs because they enjoy it. What illegal activity are you proposing people will seek if drugs are medicinalized/legalized? Saying "oh they'll just move on" is a bit hand-wavey.

Gun running, human trafficking, political corruption, extortion, kidnapping, straight up stealing shit, fencing, counterfeiting.

You know all those crimes that aren't substance based.

And depending on the terms of legalization, I'm sure drugs would always be a small part, whether that be black market to avoid taxes or prescription drugs.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#53

Post by anamax »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #36
tjmc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or end the futile prohibition on drugs and tax them instead. Worked for alcohol.

That is an over-simplified solution to a complicated problem. Organized crime would change, not cease to exist. Countries where prostitution is legal still see organized abuses in the industry, like brothel owners not following regulations, etc. Moreover, marijuana has the highest likelihood of being legalized of any drug (still not likely) and yet, it is the lowest profit margin for organized crime. Cocaine, ecstasy…

> Cocaine, ecstasy, heroin, etc. are much more profitable, and legalizing these would be socially irresponsible, if fiscally lucrative.

Are you claiming that the benefits that we actually get from the current prohibitions are greater than the costs of those prohibitions?

If so, that's not obviously true. After all, I can get all of those things without too much effort, so what is huge benefit of making them illegal?

If not, what definition of "socially irresponsible" are you using?

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#54

Post by anamax »

jberryman wrote: post #26
MichaelApproved wrote: post #3

I applaud their desire to try and fight the cartel but its extremely dangerous and don't fault them for pulling back.

Just look at the photo at the top of the article of policemen with automatic rifle wearing masks to protect their identities . That is some terrifying stuff.

> Just look at the photo at the top of the article of policemen with automatic rifle wearing masks to protect their identities.

FWIW, US swat police seem to do the same thing.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#55

Post by humbledrone »

tsotha wrote: post #22
lizzard wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they probably won't bother to trace actual Anonymous folks exposing this information but may end up targeting random people who are into computers, or even heavy social media users.

I think you're underestimating the reach of these cartels. I doubt they have the resources to find hackers, but they do have people feeding them information from inside the Mexican and US governments. Also, the Anonymous people have made themselves a pain in the ass to governments who have the resources to find them. Even if the cartels don't have ears in the right place it's not hard for me to imagine a list of prob…

> I doubt they have the resources to find hackers.

The Los Zetas cartel, being the second largest cartel in Mexico, probably has revenues of well over a billion dollars per year. (It's estimated that the overall earnings of all Mexican drug smugglers is $13-40 billion.)

I'm pretty sure that's enough money to hire a hacker or two.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#56

Post by dylangs1030 »

anamax wrote: post #53
dylangs1030 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an over-simplified solution to a complicated problem. Organized crime would change, not cease to exist. Countries where prostitution is legal still see organized abuses in the industry, like brothel owners not following regulations, etc. Moreover, marijuana has the highest likelihood of being legalized of any drug (still not likely) and yet, it is the lowest profit margin for organized crime. Cocaine, ecstasy…

> Cocaine, ecstasy, heroin, etc. are much more profitable, and legalizing these would be socially irresponsible, if fiscally lucrative. Are you claiming that the benefits that we actually get from the current prohibitions are greater than the costs of those prohibitions? If so, that's not obviously true. After all, I can get all of those things without too much effort, so what is huge benefit of making them illegal?…

It's not obviously false either - it's at least arguably true. When I said fiscally lucrative, I was admitting there may be a certain profit to legalizing these substances. However, it's socially irresponsible. I don't think a society will function as well with a government making clearly adverse narcotics freely available because people want them.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#57

Post by dylangs1030 »

mdda wrote: post #42
dylangs1030 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an over-simplified solution to a complicated problem. Organized crime would change, not cease to exist. Countries where prostitution is legal still see organized abuses in the industry, like brothel owners not following regulations, etc. Moreover, marijuana has the highest likelihood of being legalized of any drug (still not likely) and yet, it is the lowest profit margin for organized crime. Cocaine, ecstasy…

Profit margins should be expected to be proportionate to illegality : Since the threat of punishment forces vibrant competition out of the market. Similarly, one can track the effectiveness of the war on drugs by looking at the street prices of drugs over time. If the war was effective, prices would be rising. Unfortunately, basic economic theory shows that the war on drugs is a complete failure.

Right. And like I said, it might be a fiscal improvement to legalize drugs. You could earn money from it. But, and i mean this in all sincerity, do you want to live in a society where they're freely accessible?

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#58

Post by sliverstorm »

Avshalom wrote: post #52
nikatwork wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People drink and take drugs because they enjoy it. What illegal activity are you proposing people will seek if drugs are medicinalized/legalized? Saying "oh they'll just move on" is a bit hand-wavey.

Gun running, human trafficking, political corruption, extortion, kidnapping, straight up stealing shit, fencing, counterfeiting. You know all those crimes that aren't substance based. And depending on the terms of legalization, I'm sure drugs would always be a small part, whether that be black market to avoid taxes or prescription drugs.

We should probably legalize all those too. They'll go away.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#59

Post by jseliger »

tjmc wrote: post #33
rdl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to fight criminals at a scale where they threaten the state is through intelligence and military techniques, not law enforcement. Find them, build up decent evidence, kill them; don't try to prosecute. The risk is turning into a star chamber or right wing paramilitary, but I would trust the professionalism and morality of an organization like the us military to resist that. Plan Colombia worked out ok, c…

Or end the futile prohibition on drugs and tax them instead. Worked for alcohol.

I was going to post something just like this, but mine went: "The only way to harm organizations of this size is to attack their funding source." In this case, that means, primarily, drugs.

Re: Anonymous Cancels Operation Cartel as Los Zetas Track Hacktivists

#60

Post by guelo »

rdl wrote: post #37
jfoutz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has that ever worked? In the U.S. anyway, gangs only seemed to disappear after pretty intense FBI work. I'm thinking of stuff like http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/organizedcrime/itali... but maybe there's much more militarized approach that's been effective that i'm forgetting.

There aren't criminal organizations in the USA which can credibly threaten state governments, let aloe the Feds. This is different in other countries. Hence, law enforcement to solve crime in the USA; targeted killings in Mexico.

There used to be, the mob was practically running several cities and literally owned Las Vegas. It took many decades to reduce the threat.
Post reply on HN