Sex is going out of fashion? • Hacker News Board

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#581

Post by throwaway34135 » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

idealmedtech wrote: post #525

throwaway34135 wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See I think there are no "unsanctioned places" except for maybe a mosque or a funeral. I think the real unwritten rule is, don't flirt with someone unless you're reasonably confident that they'd like to be flirted with. Some people might be able to figure that out in a matter of minutes, and others might need to get to know someone over the course of weeks or months in a casual group setting to figure it out. I am so…

I think the important bit here that maybe I didn't make clear is that, at least in the context of men flirting with women, sometimes women are kind and polite without actually being comfortable (social conditioning), which many men incorrectly take as a sign of interest. I agree that if you're charming and fun, flirting with strangers is pretty straightforward, and I especially agree with the point about getting to k…

> the context of men flirting with women, sometimes women are kind and polite without actually being comfortable (social conditioning), which many men incorrectly take as a sign of interest.

That's totally true! But that's one thing about flirting, it can be very light and non-committal.

If she is being extra friendly, smiling a lot, and giving you a little extra eye contact, you can do the same and see how she responds. If she gives you a positive feedback, take it one step farther. If she gives you negative feedback, just forget about it no harm done.

Maybe she was smiling at you in the first place because she also doesn't know if she wants to flirt with you and she's testing the waters.

I think where people get into trouble is they see someone go from 0 to 1, and they jump straight to step 7 which comes off as aggressive and off-putting.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#582

Post by MisterBastahrd » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

silverpepsi wrote: post #175

nnoitra wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. In the Western world if you aren't a >= 7 in the looks department you will definitely struggle.

Better to say strictly >8, as surveys have found that women rate 80% of males as "below average" in the looks department.

80% are not struggling with women. Most dating frustration is due to unrealistic expectations and a lack of effort. Some of the ugliest men I know have gotten married and have maintained relationships because they put in the effort to be interesting, listened to their SOs, found common interests, kept up with personal hygiene, and maintained the relationship long-term... which includes both sharing time together and giving each other space.

Are their SOs conventionally attractive? Not really, but I think their intimacy with their best friend makes up for it.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#583

Post by throwaway34135 » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 7:03 PM UTC

collegeburner wrote: post #519

throwaway34135 wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See I think there are no "unsanctioned places" except for maybe a mosque or a funeral. I think the real unwritten rule is, don't flirt with someone unless you're reasonably confident that they'd like to be flirted with. Some people might be able to figure that out in a matter of minutes, and others might need to get to know someone over the course of weeks or months in a casual group setting to figure it out. I am so…

This is because learning comes from failing and getting better. And young people can not do this easily because there is a lot of stigma associated with being the "creep" who flirts badly or when not wanted.

How much of that is real and how much of it is in young people's heads?

I think people have been dealing with rejection forever. Everyone has to start out awkward, and most people get over it.

Maybe that is one place where technology hurts us. Maybe 30 years ago, a young person would have tried and struck out, and then they would have gotten over it and tried again. Whereas maybe today people try and fail, and then they can retreat into video games and online communities, which offer a superficial sense of success or belonging without the same risk of direct rejection.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#584

Post by MisterBastahrd » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 7:03 PM UTC

lesstyzing wrote: post #205

There are so many incel type comments in this thread and anytime this subject comes up. Online dating definitely isn’t fun but it’s not the shit show people here seem to make out. All of my friends met their long terms partners on dating apps. None of these men are particularly attractive. All are average looking at best. Personally I went from never dating to going on dates with a handful of people over a 6 month pe…

You also just... don't have to do online dating. Go to a place that you're interested in being in and meet people there. If there are no women there, then you don't have to cancel that interest, but maybe it's not the thing to do to meet them. Save it for your bucket list of stuff you want to do when you've found someone but need some time away from the house.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#585

Post by R0b0t1 » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 7:13 PM UTC

guerrilla wrote: post #570

Kye wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine being bombarded with messages from horny and desperate men is a great time.

You seriously can't imagine being bombarded with messages from horny and desperate women is a great time? That having hundreds if not thousands to choose from is a grea time?

It's better than nothing? And from what I can tell there is usually a handful of good dates in the massive pile, and it's not too hard to find them. But then (as a woman) you could just not bother and go to a bar.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#586

Post by mcv » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 7:14 PM UTC

sleepdreamy wrote: post #367

mcv wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't we talking about people in their 20s? You seem to be describing teenagers. For people in their 20s, it's always been quite normal to have a job, a home, and, at some point during their 20s, to get married.

Normal off what metric? Your metric? I am 29 and was finally able to purchase my first home. I am one of if not the only person in my large friend group to purchase a home without assistance from parents If you think people in their 20s are buying homes and starting families en-masse well I've got bad news for you

But that is now. I'm talking about how it used to be. Look at the GP. Here's what I'm responding to:

> People in their 20s having their own digs is, I think, a decidedly American phenomenon. In most of the poorer parts of the world (including, for example, Central and Eastern Europe), 30+ years ago younger crowd managed to have sex just fine, using dorm rooms, snatching time while parents were away, etc.

I think them not having their own digs is much more an American phenomenon, at least recently. Though houses have gotten ridiculously expensive in a lot of countries. Still, back when I was in my 20s, it was quite common in Europe for people to at least rent their own place, and possibly even buy a small apartment. I've got an entire branch of my family where everybody married at 21 and moved out at that age. In my parents' time, it was not much different, though they did live in my grandparents' massive house briefly after their marriage, and bought their first home when they were 34. But it was definitely common for people to move out of their parents' home when they got married. Once going to university got more common, that became the time they moved out.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#587

Post by plonk » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 7:17 PM UTC

csee wrote: post #398

eropple wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Touching the poop in these threads is always a bad idea. And this is more to the passer-by who might be reading and thinking that the person to whom I am replying is onto something (edited; I don't think 'csee is being disingenuous). In these sorts of claims, "the top few percent" is never actually defined, and it means that folks who do quite well for themselves but aren't unironically studly chads have to be cut ou…

You give good advice but I was commenting on the well documented asymmetry and inequality in outcomes that cut across gender lines which are likely magnified by these dating apps. It's not bitterness to point out objective facts that are highly relevant to the topic of conversation. "Improve yourself" is always the healthiest mindset on a personal level but that's not exactly deep analysis on the impact that these ap…

> the well documented asymmetry and inequality in outcomes that cut across gender lines which are likely magnified by these dating apps

Or only specific to these apps? I'd like to see the documentation on the "well-documented asymmetry" to believe otherwise, because that's not what I observed.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#588

Post by mcv » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 7:17 PM UTC

skohan wrote: post #284

mcv wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't we talking about people in their 20s? You seem to be describing teenagers. For people in their 20s, it's always been quite normal to have a job, a home, and, at some point during their 20s, to get married.

Again in the United States and to a lesser extent in the rest of the developed world. It's very common in many parts of the world for kids to live at home until they get married, unless they have to move for work.

Yeah, but it was also common to get married in their 20s and move out after they got married.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#589

Post by aiisjustanif » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 7:17 PM UTC

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #551

corrral wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or worse, a passive, submissive person expecting men to just push their way through any resistance and keep trying, when men are actively taught to respect a woman's boundaries. Not to go into too much detail, but I've had to seriously recalibrate my "respect women" upbringing to make my wife happy. And I'm not even talking sub/dom stuff or outright rape-fantasy things like I've heard tell of from my (somewhat shel…

This is very common, which is why I called out the other commenter. Sex is complicated, fantasies even more so. Men are pushed to be less proactive and more reactive, but women are still primarily passive when it comes to working these things out. It certainly is 'safer' for society to not have every guy be proactive, but it creates a lot of mismatches in sexual expectations partners have of one another. That's not t…

It’s worth pointing out that women may have higher rates of their testosterone levels being lower compared to men because of birth control, stress, or sleep.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#590

Post by blindmute » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 7:20 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #379

csee wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the top few percent of men.

Touching the poop in these threads is always a bad idea. And this is more to the passer-by who might be reading and thinking that the person to whom I am replying is onto something (edited; I don't think 'csee is being disingenuous). In these sorts of claims, "the top few percent" is never actually defined, and it means that folks who do quite well for themselves but aren't unironically studly chads have to be cut ou…

It's not a personal issue. OKCupid has published a lot of data on this. The top 20% of men as rated by women are having overwhelmingly more sex through online dating than anyone else. It's not close; it's more of a cliff than a curve. It doesn't matter how much you "like yourself", you will be swiped left if you're not physically attractive.

I am not saying this as sour grapes. I have had sex with dozens of women from Tinder, putting me in the top success percentiles of male users. The reality for average men online is extremely bleak. Denying this, giving advice to "like yourself" or to do therapy, or the ever common "you have to be happy alone first", are entirely fabricated coping mechanisms.

If you are even getting a handful of dates from the app from which to test your personality theories, you never had the problem at all.