Sex is going out of fashion? • Hacker News Board

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#361

Post by klipt » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #329

idealmedtech wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this explanation of the grind of online dating a lot, and I think it misses a more fundamental point: people fundamentally are pretty terrible at talking to strangers. Without conversational skills, a vast majority of online dating conversations simply fizzle out; often times simply due to disinterest, but I think almost always due to a lack of ability to hold a conversation and be both interesting and interest…

If it were just a matter of people being terrible at talking to strangers, you'd see the same issues that affect straight dating apps affect gay dating ones. They don't. (That also applies to the comment you're replying to). Any explanation of the shittiness of straight dating apps has to center gender norms and roles.

Dating apps don't want you to have a successful relationship because then they lose you as a customer. They want you to at most have a short fling and come back. But having no success and scrolling endlessly is also fine by them.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#362

Post by BlargMcLarg » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

lesstyzing wrote: post #262

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to be real with you, this sounds similar to the "the job market isn't that bad, yes it's bad but I got a job right out of college" spiel bypassing evidence that many people send hundreds of job applications before they ever get a job. Studies show most people meet online. Studies show most people struggle in dating markets. These are not mutually exclusive. But unlike jobs, one doesn't need to date to live,…

I can see your comparison but I disagree. In a normal job market most people can come out of a college a get a job. It just might not be the flashy job they think they deserve. Maybe they have to wash dishes or stick shelves when they’re trained for something else. Dating is similar. You can get a date if you’re willing to compromise on looks. Some people just won’t even entertain that idea or won’t entertain the ide…

I hope I don't need to tell you why this comparison is incredibly flawed. If you treat dating the same way as jobhunting and your answer is "just get a dead end job", you're encouraging people to enter a lot of bad relationships and a lot of breaking hearts. Not to mention many people do not consider "just a date" a net positive, or even "just a date and sex".

Beyond that, you still haven't addressed the elephant in the room: jobs are necessary to survive for most people, whereas celibacy doesn't kill.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#363

Post by havblue » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

lesstyzing wrote: post #205

There are so many incel type comments in this thread and anytime this subject comes up. Online dating definitely isn’t fun but it’s not the shit show people here seem to make out. All of my friends met their long terms partners on dating apps. None of these men are particularly attractive. All are average looking at best. Personally I went from never dating to going on dates with a handful of people over a 6 month pe…

I think it partially depends on the app you use as well. You ultimately need to figure out what people are using in your region.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#364

Post by falcolas » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

mft_ wrote: post #333

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #305

"Ctrl-F Marriage" gives no results. Surely decrease in marriages is the biggest driver. It's a lot easier to have sex with someone if you live with them. A straight person isn't going to find multiple new partners to sleep with per week and even if you have a boyfriend/girlfriend, unless you are cohabitating you probably only see them a few days per week.

This would conflict with the stereotype that marriage == little sex, after the first few years?

Perhaps because the stereotype is wrong? Or rather, it depends on the relationship you have with your partner. Intimacy will mirror the rest of your relationship.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#365

Post by eropple » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

rowanG077 wrote: post #319

Minor49er wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MGTOW's major proponents will go out of their way to demonize women whenever they can. It's common for these people to turn towards things like RealDolls (the supposedly lifelike sex dolls) and anime starring under-aged girls. Raging Golden Eagle on YouTube is the poster boy of this kind of MGTOW advocate. Self-improvement isn't at odds with pursuing healthy relationships with the opposite sex.

Self-improvement definitely isn't at odds with pursuing healthy relationships with the opposite sex. But from what I gathered MGTOW is(was?) simply a movement that wanted to improve their lives by being comfortable without being in a relationship for various reasons. I never got a misogynistic vibe from them. But it's literally years ago I had read about them. They could very well have gone the Incel route over time.…

That's never what the MGTOW people asserted in any serious way. From the jump it was "the world is 'sexually prejudiced' against us men [or capital-M Men when they were being extra weird] and so we should separate from it entirely." It immediately leapt right into what would today be called "cope" how even if you do get married she'll just divorce you for a studly chad and take all your stuff, the fear of feminists (hiss! never mind that mainstream feminist study is pretty in on the assertion "this is bad for dudes too"! hiss!), all that. As a side effect of this insularity, for some people trapped in it there were definitely some self-improvement vibes. But that was never the goal of the people developing its, for lack of a better term, theory.

I used to study online right-wing and fascist movements as they evolved. The incel and MGTOW crowds absolutely went towards a fearful, hard-right-wing view of the world as fast as they could be led towards it. It is difficult to gin up another reading of the core stuff that doesn't depend on being super, super credulous.

ETA: 'XorNot, in a sibling reply to yours, raises a really good and thoughtful point about the self-improvement gimmick being a good way to rope suckers into your movement, and it's worth thinking about.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#366

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:19 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #347

CodeSgt wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that all the things you listed are definitely culprits, but I wouldn't be so quick to discount porn. Anecdotally, I myself and many otherwise healthy, sociable young men I know have pretty serious porn addictions. I really wish there would be more research done on the negative impacts of pornography, especially on young men and teens/pre-teens. I know typically any anti-porn sentiment is met with "Oh you're j…

You list men as the reason why people have less sex, but unless women is having a lot of more sex with other women to compensate the numbers, it is both women and men that is having less sex and it could be either gender or both that is causing the trend. It is jumping to conclusions to assume that only men determine if the world population is going to have sex or not. Personally I would blame social media much more…

TIL that social media is acting as birth control as a second order effect.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#367

Post by sleepdreamy » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:21 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #140

ptero wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in their 20s having their own digs is, I think, a decidedly American phenomenon. In most of the poorer parts of the world (including, for example, Central and Eastern Europe), 30+ years ago younger crowd managed to have sex just fine, using dorm rooms, snatching time while parents were away, etc. My 2c.

Aren't we talking about people in their 20s? You seem to be describing teenagers. For people in their 20s, it's always been quite normal to have a job, a home, and, at some point during their 20s, to get married.

Normal off what metric? Your metric?

I am 29 and was finally able to purchase my first home. I am one of if not the only person in my large friend group to purchase a home without assistance from parents

If you think people in their 20s are buying homes and starting families en-masse well I've got bad news for you

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#368

Post by csee » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:22 PM UTC

scoutt wrote: post #255

saimiam wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So who are these (presumably primarily straight) young women having sex with?

I learn from the comments here that if you line up 100 women and 100 men, all 100 women will have sex with only 5 of the guys. For which I don't think this is true at all...

Maybe not that extreme but it's a super well documented phenomenon across evolutionary psych and studies of dating app stats.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#369

Post by idealmedtech » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:22 PM UTC

psyc wrote: post #336

idealmedtech wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this explanation of the grind of online dating a lot, and I think it misses a more fundamental point: people fundamentally are pretty terrible at talking to strangers. Without conversational skills, a vast majority of online dating conversations simply fizzle out; often times simply due to disinterest, but I think almost always due to a lack of ability to hold a conversation and be both interesting and interest…

I’m good at conversation and getting to know people and I had no success with online dating (as opposed to acceptable success with serendipitous dating). I always thought it was because it’s hard to integrate them into your life. They’ve come from out of nowhere, your friend circles don’t overlap, and your daily paths don’t cross. It’s extra effort to make that stuff happen after the fact, and even then it doesn’t fe…

That's definitely true! It's so much easier to date in person from a logistical standpoint, and I think your comment also hints at what I think is kind of a paradox: in today's social spaces, being a kind and conscientious individual often means giving strangers their space, especially in places that used to be centers of socialization; gyms, coffee shops, parks etc. But by doing this, your opportunities for organic relationships dry up significantly, especially if you're not consistent about being in those spaces. So often times people feel forced into online dating as one of the few "sanctioned" spaces where it's still considered okay to flirt with strangers.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#370

Post by scarmig » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:23 PM UTC

_fat_santa wrote: post #309

kbrannigan wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get of these apps. I think many men who use apps, do so because they are too afraid to approach a woman they find attractive if the situation is appropriate. They don't bite, if you make a move with enough respect and confidence. In my opinion while convenient, they should be last resort.

I've been using Hinge for the past year and half with a good bit of success, I can regularly go on 1-3 dates per week and have managed to keep that consistency pretty much all year. IMO success comes down to 3 key things: profile, conversation and managing expectations. First your profile, take high quality photos and weave in a story about your life in there. Guys think that it's the shirtless 6 pack that will get d…

> I can regularly go on 1-3 dates per week and have managed to keep that consistency pretty much all year.

The difficulty for most men is getting those 1-3 dates per week, not the follow-through. As much as you might want to attribute your success to your charm and conversation, even getting a match per week, let alone enough to turn into 1-3 dates, is the barrier. And anyone who's getting 1-3 dates per week is likely going to be able to find a relationship if they're looking for one after a couple months.

Quality of pictures and persona certainly plays a role, but there are immutable traits that apps prioritize that radically reduce the amount of inbound interest. Getting off the apps as suggested in the parent comment is the only real way to deal with that.