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EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

theregister.com

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Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#191

Post by bionsystem »

jhgb wrote: post #169
bionsystem wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's assume we go from 30% (low end of small engine efficiency according to first link) to 55% (high end for a Diesel engine according to the second article), so a little short of twice as efficient. What do you think is going to be the overhead of the conversion rate to electricity, electricity transportation ? Because if it is another 50% you lost all interest (but you built a plant and a float of cars and batteri…

> What do you think is going to be the overhead of the conversion rate to electricity, electricity transportation ? Well, for example transformers are ~98% efficient, AC lines lose around 7% per 1000 km. So with three transformers between you and the power plant and a ~300 km distance, you lose around 8% between the power plant and you. > Because if it is another 50% you lost all interest (but you built a plant and a…

I can't judge on your numbers but just to point out that we were comparing gasoline plants + EV vs gasoline cars and I feel that the discussion is switching into NE plants + EV vs gasoline cars.

I also think that a lot of steel+copper+lithium and others are not taken into the equation to replace cars and manufacture more plants. Steel particularly consumes a lot of energy to produce. Uranium shortages are going to become a thing too especially with new demand from China.

Also I disagree with your optimism on french nuclear and renewable, having worked there and having friends working in EDF and also following various debates, political decisions, and news flow, we went from quite optimistic a few years back to more and more pessimistic about the whole thing. Nobody seems to want a nuclear plant, or a solar/wind power field next to their home. And the competency for nuclear has retired or seems to be going to China or elsewhere for counseling now.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#192

Post by marssaxman »

skeletal88 wrote: post #121
karamanolev wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to see how there are two top-level comments, one saying the date is too far away and the other saying that it's a short period for such a transition. I guess both are true in some way - it's really challenging to decarbonise quickly, but we need even quicker, because we're way past reasonable in terms of the environmental situation.

Electric cars are still ridiculously expensive, don't have the same range and features etc, why would I want one? I live in a cold place, cold isn't good for batteries and engines heat the car inside, with electric cars heating reduces the range drastically

> Electric cars are still ridiculously expensive, don't have the same range and features etc, why would I want one?

Are you under the age of 65? Do you have children? Do you expect that you will ever have children?

If so, you want either an electric car or no car at all, in preference to a fossil-fuel-powered car, because you want the planet to remain hospitable for humans.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#193

Post by dzhiurgis »

moravak1984 wrote: post #103

Way too rushed... I don't think there is a clear roadmap for how the required infrastructure and supply chain will work. Definitely no clear understanding on the environmental impact of EVs. Did some pushy Tesla sales reps took senior EU politicians for some cool test rides? Sounds very much like it.

Electric buses with a battery size of Tesla already have proved themselves, rest will solve itself.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#194

Post by me_me_me »

crote wrote: post #79
me_me_me wrote: post #17

Environment aside, this is not realistic with just aim to ban combustion engines. You need to fund groundbreaking infrastructural changes at national level. The last mile of logistics channels will not work with mythical electric trucks. Those does not exist because they make no sense. So how are we going to flow all those goods to markets?

The literal last mile is the easiest part, actually. Electric trucks with a range of 300km are already widely available, and that's more than enough for local use. Besides, in Europe there are pretty stringent rules about driving times already. You need to take a 45-minute break every 4.5 hours, which at 90 kmh is every 400 km. You can split that into a 15-minute break and a 30-minute one, requiring an even shorter r…

> Electric trucks with a range of 300km

I have to do it, but citation is needed. A quick googling and all i see is announcements of future truck. Tesla truck that are more cost efficient than trains available as early as 2018 are almost ready for 'production.

> The way I see it, the truck isn't the problem: building the charging infrastructure is.

Hmmmm, I wonder if you could rephrase that... 'You need to fund groundbreaking infrastructural changes at national level.'

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#195

Post by alfl »

ido wrote: post #14
hkopr wrote: post #6

This is good from an environmental perspective, if (and that is a big if) the electricity is generated from clean sources. The societal implications are worrisome. Electric vehicles tend to track and surveil their "owners", fast charging is centralized and can be tracked as well. We have seen how far dystopian regimes like Trudeau's are willing to go. Instead of freezing the bank accounts using enabling laws, he coul…

I've not heard of Canada having a dystopian regime, can you elaborate what you mean by that?

OP is likely referring to the current government using emergency powers to order banks to freeze the accounts of protestors. The government has also (re-) introduced legislation to require platforms to regulate social media posts, as well as taken several other positions the perceived wisdom of which depends greatly on one's politics.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#196

Post by fold3 »

moravak1984 wrote: post #103

Way too rushed... I don't think there is a clear roadmap for how the required infrastructure and supply chain will work. Definitely no clear understanding on the environmental impact of EVs. Did some pushy Tesla sales reps took senior EU politicians for some cool test rides? Sounds very much like it.

There definitely won't be a 1:1 replacement of petrol based car to electric. Public transportation will have to develop and drastic change in the way we move will be needed. The ban is coming too late if you consider the Paris agreement for a 1.5°C target of global warming is already on it's way to be missed.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#197

Post by koonsolo »

scrollaway wrote: post #174
koonsolo wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to take a train when I can take a plane (which is not crazy expensive anyway). And as you know, planes are pretty polluting. So not sure that ditching driving to your destination is a positive evolution.

Do you live in Europe? Car trips and plane trips are not interchangeable over here. If people ditch their cars, they won't be taking the plane instead , they would only take planes for long distances. If they have those means, it's most likely they're already taking the plane for it. Furthermore, short haul flights are being banned in Europe.

I live in Belgium, and at least here that's not true at all. People drive to the south during holidays. South of France, Spain, Italy, ... . And people from the Netherlands do even bigger distances than that, mostly with their camper. And when they don't drive, guess what we/they use: not trains, airplanes. Ryanair is really cheap on some flights.

For myself, my wife is from Slovakia, so every year I drive at least once there (1200km). I can do that in 1 day with getting gas in the middle. My wife takes the plane with our youngest one. The reason I drive is because I take a lot of stuff, and want a big car there. If I wouldn't take the car (which sometimes happens), I take the plane, it's really fast. I don't want to imagine how long the train would take me, and how many times I have to switch...

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#198

Post by Retric »

freemint wrote: post #175
Retric wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU doesn’t use oil to run it’s electric grid. There is enough Natural Gas production in the EU + UK to cover electricity production. It’s home heating that needs imported gas.

And heavy industry also depends on natural gas.

Even so, Russia is only supplying ~10% of Europe’s total natural gas consumption.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#199

Post by packetlost »

Sankozi wrote: post #154
skeletal88 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars are still ridiculously expensive, don't have the same range and features etc, why would I want one? I live in a cold place, cold isn't good for batteries and engines heat the car inside, with electric cars heating reduces the range drastically

We need to tell that to people in Norway where 85% of new cars are plugin vehicles. Electric cars can run on average 100 km/h over 10 hours if you plan your trip well (and have a bit of luck with free spots on plugin stations). Apart from charging time I don't see where plugin vehicle is worse than ICE one when it comes to features.

> Electric cars can run on average 100 km/h over 10 hours

That's below highway speed here, and everything is at least twice the distance in America than you think it is. The nearest major city from me is 240km away, the second is 435km and it gets -34C here (the average in winter being about -10C).

It just isn't feasible if you aren't in a dense metro area and only ever use your vehicle to commute (which is by far not the case).

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#200

Post by koonsolo »

adrianN wrote: post #182
koonsolo wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to take a train when I can take a plane (which is not crazy expensive anyway). And as you know, planes are pretty polluting. So not sure that ditching driving to your destination is a positive evolution.

You're not going to take the car when you can take a plane either.

That's not true here in Belgium and the Netherlands. See my comment above (or below)
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