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Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

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Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#231

Post by notinfuriated »

eschulz wrote: post #155
curiousllama wrote: post #126

> After receiving payments ranging from between $300 to $5,000 per election from Myers, Demuro would add fraudulent votes on the voting machine The most staggering thing for me is how _tiny_ the payments are

That seems to frequently be the surprising thing about these corruption cases. I'm reminded of the fascinating case where journalists in Chicago bought a bar to investigate corruption. They were shocked at $10 bribes getting things done for them (30+ years ago, but still a small sum). https://interactive.wttw.com/timemachine/mirage-tavern Many of us would assume the sums of money needed to bribe officials would be hu…

Wild. I don't think $10 would get me to the front of the line reliably at good restaurants.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#232

Post by tasty_freeze »

jaywalk wrote: post #43
systemvoltage wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good". People have stopped thinking for themselves. Anyth…

Quoted post unavailable.

> The only reason to be against voter ID is to make fraud easier.

You have little imagination. Just because someone claims some new law protects the integrity of the vote doesn't mean that is the actual intent. Frequently it is just a pretext for differentially shaving off a percent or two of the "wrong" types of voters.

For decades conservatives have been alleging widespread voter fraud by democrats. I can't count the number of times I've heard about dead people being on the voter rolls. Yes, when my dad died of stroke, getting his name removed from the voter registry was item #496 on my list of things to do.

After the 2016 election Trump alleged 3M+ illegal votes. He formed a committee to investigate it, headed by Kris Kobach, who has a history of making such claims despite not showing anything. Despite having the full power and resources of the federal government at his disposal, the committee turned up nothing.

Election fraud is a real concern, and none of the recent laws address that. Voter fraud is on the order of 1:100,000 to 1:1,000,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_impersonation_(United_St...

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#235

Post by philjohn »

hintymad wrote: post #5

European countries and Canada could finish counting ballots in a day. All paper records. US had to take days, and any questioning into the process is labeled, of course, racism and right wing. It must be because the US is so advanced and progressive. It's a shame, I guess, that the damn European countries or our neighbor can't follow our lead.

Know why that was? In a lot of cases it's because in a lot of states they weren't even able to start procesing mail ballots until polls closed on election day.

Processing a mail ballot involves physically opening the envelope, removing the ballot, ensuring that everything matches against the records. This could not be done in a single night. There's no conspiracy, just obvious consequences of those rules when you evaluate the information critically.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#237

Post by _-david-_ »

corrral wrote: post #180
jjslocum3 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the progressive default argument on this topic is pretty transparent BS. If it's too hard for some people to get an ID, make it easier for everyone to get an ID. Don't open up elections to an obvious fraud vector.

The Republicans aren't interested in ensuring IDs are easy & free to get as part of their voter ID bills, because it defeats the purpose of why they're so enthusiastic for this to begin with. Democrats don't trust anything short of very concrete and explicit measures in that regard, for fear that the rug will be pulled later, similar to polling-place distribution/availability issues in some places. Standard, universa…

Republicans do offer free IDs in every state where they mandate IDs for voting. It may not always be the easiest to get since you have to go to the DMV though. Do you think Democrats would be willing to have voter ID laws if the post office offered free IDs?

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#238

Post by willcipriano »

jcranmer wrote: post #91
systemvoltage wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good". People have stopped thinking for themselves. Anyth…

> For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good". There are several key differences between the US…

> Oh, and it'll cost you $50 (actual costs vary from state to state). And requiring voters to spend $50 to get an ID that lets them vote is totally not going to be in violation of the 24th Amendment (that bans poll taxes).

That's why all states with voter id laws also have to offer a free "walking" id.

> A final thing I'll bring up is this: to get my photo ID, I basically need to show up to the appropriate state office with something like a birth certificate and something that has my current address. Why is it that showing up to vote with this same information is somehow insufficiently secure to allow me to vote?

Some states let people use student ID's, like the thing the AV club prints in the basement. Birth certificate, social security card and a current bill should be enough in my opinion, but anti voter id folks would go nuts if you said you had to bring all those to vote.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#239

Post by bavell »

tootie wrote: post #164
padjo wrote: post #37

Just for context it seems The guy he bribed (i.e. the one who actually did the stuffing) was convicted in March 2020. So this isn’t exactly fresh news.

Quoted post unavailable.

The influx of conservative politics doesn't seem to be limited to HN from what I've seen but representative of a larger trend happening in our society at the moment.

Personally it's not surprising at all to me, it's just the pendulum swinging back.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#240

Post by ronald_raygun »

rayiner wrote: post #30

Americans have a really tough time with the notion of materiality. America is such a big country that, as a matter of statistics, anything that can happen is happening. That doesn’t mean it happens often enough to call into question our basic systems. In this case it’s the right that fails to grasp materiality. Yes, people vote illegally, ballot boxes get stuffed, their is collusion, etc. No, it doesn’t happen often…

> No, it doesn’t happen often enough to undermine the integrity of elections in the aggregate.

Nah election fraud matters pretty materially. If it werent for this rigged election, we would have never gotten the 1964 civil rights bill

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_13_scandal

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