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Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

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Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#91

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For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good". People have stopped thinking for themselves. Anyth…

> For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good".

There are several key differences between the US and the EU.

The most notable difference is that there is no national ID card like there is in Europe. This means that what qualifies as a valid ID is up to the states, and they can (and do!) play games with what is valid. For most people, the de facto ID standard is a driver's license, but if you physically can't meet the standards for one, well... maybe you can get a state-issued photo ID. Just show up to your county courthouse between the hours of 11 and 1 on any third Thursday of a month and you can get one [1]. That's easy, right?

Oh, and it'll cost you $50 (actual costs vary from state to state). And requiring voters to spend $50 to get an ID that lets them vote is totally not going to be in violation of the 24th Amendment (that bans poll taxes).

The second aspect that's rather key is the US has a sordid history of using gimmicks to prevent the wrong sort of people from voting. It's not unreasonable to suggest that voter ID laws are intended to be a more modern variant of historical tricks like literacy tests--and a few of them have been struck down because the legislators passing them have admitted that they were intended to prevent people from voting.

A final thing I'll bring up is this: to get my photo ID, I basically need to show up to the appropriate state office with something like a birth certificate and something that has my current address. Why is it that showing up to vote with this same information is somehow insufficiently secure to allow me to vote?

[1] This example is admittedly hyperbole, but there are some states where getting these sorts of cards are rather closer to this difficulty than I'm comfortable with. Especially in areas that were historically barred from voting because they're mostly the wrong sort of the people.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#93
post #36

This was done by adding votes. The voter counts of poll watchers should not have matched those of the election officials. Why wasn't that noticed?

It was done by the election officials in charge of certifying the count. Read the article and it explains the whole thing. They went to great lengths to keep it "within the bounds" of the existing system, to make it harder to detect.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#94
Myers was the representative for Pennsylvania’s 1st congressional district and was a Democrat. He served from 1975 to 1980.

Meyers was convicted of bribery in 1980 as part of the ABSCAM investigation and on Oct. 2, 1980, the House of Representatives expelled him in a 376-30 vote.

Source: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/michael_myers/40809...

More on ABSCAM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam

Each congressman who was approached would be given a large sum of money in exchange for "private immigration bills" to allow foreigners associated with Abdul Enterprises into the country and for building permits and licenses for casinos in Atlantic City, among other investment arrangements.

The FBI recorded each of the money exchanges and, for the first time in American history, surreptitiously videotaped government officials accepting bribes.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#95
post #88
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. It’s a barrier preventing citizens from exercising constitutional rights. The need isn’t clearly demonstrated to justify the restriction. Voter ID laws have different outcomes based on economic status. It’s especially difficult for poor people to exercise their rights. > People have stopped thinking for themselves. Or maybe someone else thought of something yo…

> It’s a barrier for poor people to exercise their rights. This is delusional. ID is required for so many daily activities and the price of an ID (if they charge for it) is less than $10.

In Alabama, it's $36.25 (cite: https://www.alea.gov/dps/driver-license/license-and-id-cards).

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#98

[flagged]

Location data is nowhere near fine-grained enough to determine if an individual has gone to a ballot dropbox vs. the coffee shop next to it. And dropboxes are intentionally placed in convenient high-traffic areas. I would be very suspicious of these fraud claims just on how unreliable the data naturally is.

Besides, if you really wanted to rig elections with mail ballots, it's way more effective to throw away ballots than to stuff them.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#100
post #88
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. It’s a barrier preventing citizens from exercising constitutional rights. The need isn’t clearly demonstrated to justify the restriction. Voter ID laws have different outcomes based on economic status. It’s especially difficult for poor people to exercise their rights. > People have stopped thinking for themselves. Or maybe someone else thought of something yo…

> It’s a barrier for poor people to exercise their rights. This is delusional. ID is required for so many daily activities and the price of an ID (if they charge for it) is less than $10.

It takes very little to imagine how this causes inequality. Maybe you can’t get the state ID either! Voter ID and State ID aren’t necessarily the same thing. Maybe you need both! Maybe you can get your State ID at a local office but the Voter ID only from the county courthouse two towns away. Maybe you don’t have a car and a day off. Maybe they are only available on certain days and times. Maybe those times change at the last minute.

When all those maybes line up you get inequality. This is well established behavior across the United States. If you want to learn more I suggest starting with this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965

My thoughts on this have evolved over the years. I encourage you to dig deeper into this. Voter ID might not do or mean what you think it does.

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