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Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

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Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#151

Post by shadowgovt »

systemvoltage wrote: post #106
jcranmer wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Alabama, it's $36.25 (cite: https://www.alea.gov/dps/driver-license/license-and-id-cards ).

So instead of opposing the entire idea of voter IDs, why do we not pass a Federal law that makes getting an ID free of charge? Seems like that's the root cause or the main contention.

There's a big can of worms here. The thumbnail sketch is "Americans have some (as viewed from outside the US) odd and severe hangups about being tracked by the government that is, ostensibly, theirs."

Reasons range from the practical / legal ones listed by the ACLU (https://www.aclu.org/other/5-problems-national-id-cards) to a small-but-vocal subset of voters who actually believe (because so much of the US is descended from Christian zealots fleeing persecution in their home countries for heterodoxy) that a card issued by your government that is required to participate in society is a literal "mark of the beast" as per the biblical Book of Revelations and therefore something to be resisted as part of a struggle against anti-Christendom.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#152

Post by ARandomerDude »

yakak wrote: post #102
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy? You don't just cold call a judge. Presumably he knew enough about what his options for judges were that he could pick the ones who would be amenable to the idea and approach them. The bribe at that point is just payment for risk (because the judge presumably doesn't have plausible deniability)

The risk clearly doesn't fit the crime. A risk of being hung for treason is harder to recruit for.

The list of people actually convicted of treason in the US is very short, and a subsequent execution hasn't happened since the mid 1800s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_convicted_of_tr...

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#153

Post by hedora »

jaywalk wrote: post #43
systemvoltage wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good". People have stopped thinking for themselves. Anyth…

Quoted post unavailable.

Currently, there are many (>> 10,000 per national election) documented cases of voter disenfranchisement, and almost no (single digit, per national election) documented cases of fraudulent voting.

The voter ID laws make voter disenfranchisement easier and fraudulent voting harder, so they greatly increase the total number of incorrectly cast / denied ballots per election. Therefore, they do a small, bounded, amount of good, and a large, unbounded, amount of harm.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#154

Post by heretogetout »

johndfsgdgdfg wrote: post #129
anderskaseorg wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certain politicians use the myth of widespread voter fraud to push targeted disenfranchising policies like voter ID requirements and mail-in voting restrictions. Conflating individual voter crimes that might supposedly be stopped by these laws, with election official crimes that have nothing to do with them, would be bad faith debating. So it’s important to be clear about this distinction.

As a non-American what's wrong with asking for voter ID? A particular party pushing for open border and waving voter ID requirement seems like a ploy to influence the election. I am open to hear how people can justify both of these policies at at the same time.

Not everyone has ID that meets the requirements laid out by voter ID proposals, and sometimes getting those IDs can be extremely expensive. Defenders like to say that the ID is free but when you point out the cost of getting birth certificates and proof of name change (common in marriage) they disappear quick.

And if it can't be shown that the number of people prevented from voting is fewer than the number of fraudulent votes, the policy is bad and should not be pursued.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#155

Post by eschulz »

curiousllama wrote: post #126

> After receiving payments ranging from between $300 to $5,000 per election from Myers, Demuro would add fraudulent votes on the voting machine The most staggering thing for me is how _tiny_ the payments are

That seems to frequently be the surprising thing about these corruption cases. I'm reminded of the fascinating case where journalists in Chicago bought a bar to investigate corruption. They were shocked at $10 bribes getting things done for them (30+ years ago, but still a small sum). https://interactive.wttw.com/timemachine/mirage-tavern

Many of us would assume the sums of money needed to bribe officials would be huge, but unfortunately many people don't consider corruption to be a big deal, so small payments can make an impact.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#156

Post by iepathos »

daenz wrote: post #31

They make it sound so simple: Bribe the Judge of Elections who oversees everything. Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates. Certify that the fake results are correct. Lie if anybody asks. This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy?

Easy to do? Probably, they only pay judge of elections about minimum wage. Not exactly positions of high standing. Easy to get away with? Not really, that's why he's been caught and pleading guilty.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#157

Post by jasonlotito »

mercy_dude wrote: post #105
flyingcircus3 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then what, if not investigations or evidence, has lead you to believe that this fraud happened?

Oh there are plenty of evidences. There were even before the election. There were postal officials who were destroying ballots in one state that was well reported. We just decided to look the other way.

Why did you choose to look the other way? Pretty amazing that you'd openly admit to having proof of this and not back it up. We had a presidential candidate go to court over this and not present any evidence of this wide-scale election fraud nor would they even admit to this massive fraud in a court of law.

Still, shame on you.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#158

Post by quercusa »

pphysch wrote: post #118
bruceb wrote: post #27

This person is actually a repeat offender with a history of abusing his office. https://www.inquirer.com/news/ozzie-myers-convicted-abscam-p...

The important question: is he an outlier, or the norm?

An outlier for Philadelphia? Probably not.

For example

PHILADELPHIA (WPVI) -- Union boss John Dougherty and Philadelphia City Councilman Bobby Henon were both found guilty of conspiracy and multiple counts of honest services wire fraud in their federal corruption trial.

In all, Dougherty was found guilty of eight of 11 charges against him. Henon was found guilty of 10 of 18 charges against him.

Prosecutors said Dougherty kept Henon, a union electrician-turned-Philadelphia City Council member, on the payroll of a $70,000 no-show job to help his union keep a tight grip on construction jobs.

https://6abc.com/jury-deliberations-bobby-henon-johnny-dough...

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#159

Post by pvg »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #141
pvg wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ridiculous to just throw this out as if it's a concrete fact. It appears to be a concrete fact this fraud did not change the outcome in any election. The scrutiny also goes way up as you move up hierarchy of election importance.

I wonder if Watergate's operations continued uninterrupted by 'you pesky kids (reporters)' what kind of innovations would be expected in that market?

I don't understand what this means, sorry.
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