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Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

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Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#101

Post by anderskaseorg »

daenz wrote: post #47
dralley wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voter fraud and election fraud are two entirely different things.

So all this time, "election fraud" is entirely plausible but we've been building a strawman around "voter fraud" and saying that it doesn't happen? What level of bad faith debating is this?

Certain politicians use the myth of widespread voter fraud to push targeted disenfranchising policies like voter ID requirements and mail-in voting restrictions. Conflating individual voter crimes that might supposedly be stopped by these laws, with election official crimes that have nothing to do with them, would be bad faith debating. So it’s important to be clear about this distinction.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#102

Post by yakak »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #59
daenz wrote: post #31

They make it sound so simple: Bribe the Judge of Elections who oversees everything. Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates. Certify that the fake results are correct. Lie if anybody asks. This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy?

>This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy? You don't just cold call a judge. Presumably he knew enough about what his options for judges were that he could pick the ones who would be amenable to the idea and approach them. The bribe at that point is just payment for risk (because the judge presumably doesn't have plausible deniability)

The risk clearly doesn't fit the crime. A risk of being hung for treason is harder to recruit for.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#103

Post by mmaurizi »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #59
daenz wrote: post #31

They make it sound so simple: Bribe the Judge of Elections who oversees everything. Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates. Certify that the fake results are correct. Lie if anybody asks. This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy?

>This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy? You don't just cold call a judge. Presumably he knew enough about what his options for judges were that he could pick the ones who would be amenable to the idea and approach them. The bribe at that point is just payment for risk (because the judge presumably doesn't have plausible deniability)

"Judge of Elections" in PA is an elected position for running the polling place for a precinct on election day. It's an extremely low-level position that only involves work on 2 days of the year.

It's not a "judge" in the sense someone who oversees a criminal or civil trial.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#104

Post by hedora »

mercy_dude wrote: post #21
duxup wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many occurred?

Luckily, Justice Department and FBI will likely have no incentives for investigating that given how they actively positioned themselves in the political debate. So we may never find out.

The federal government isn't the only organization investigating election fraud. For instance, Abbott (The Republican governor of Texas) launched his own investigation. It found evidence of voter fraud outside of Texas. Apparently, one Republican attempted to vote twice. No outcomes were affected.

Of course, all 50 states have elections offices that are also tasked with looking for internal fraud. Those offices are staffed by Republican appointees in many of the swing states Trump is complaining so bitterly about. Collectively, they came up with nothing.

Since the Democrats don't control many of the organizations that are supposedly covering up massive election fraud, who do you think is responsible?

Whoever this group is, any plausible conspiracy theory will need to include Democrats, old-school Republicans, and Republicans that are endorsed by Trump.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#105

Post by mercy_dude »

flyingcircus3 wrote: post #77
mercy_dude wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily, Justice Department and FBI will likely have no incentives for investigating that given how they actively positioned themselves in the political debate. So we may never find out.

So then what, if not investigations or evidence, has lead you to believe that this fraud happened?

Oh there are plenty of evidences. There were even before the election. There were postal officials who were destroying ballots in one state that was well reported. We just decided to look the other way.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#106

Post by systemvoltage »

jcranmer wrote: post #95
tyen_ wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a barrier for poor people to exercise their rights. This is delusional. ID is required for so many daily activities and the price of an ID (if they charge for it) is less than $10.

In Alabama, it's $36.25 (cite: https://www.alea.gov/dps/driver-license/license-and-id-cards ).

So instead of opposing the entire idea of voter IDs, why do we not pass a Federal law that makes getting an ID free of charge?

Seems like that's the root cause or the main contention.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#107

Post by eljimmy »

padjo wrote: post #37

Just for context it seems The guy he bribed (i.e. the one who actually did the stuffing) was convicted in March 2020. So this isn’t exactly fresh news.

Interestingly I can't find any news about his sentencing. Did it ever occur?

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#108

Post by seoaeu »

routerl wrote: post #53
daenz wrote: post #31

They make it sound so simple: Bribe the Judge of Elections who oversees everything. Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates. Certify that the fake results are correct. Lie if anybody asks. This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy?

> Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates > Why is it so easy? I don't know, it doesn't seem easy to me. I mean, it seems like the result of a ton of long-term planning to implement processes that allow each instance of this to be easy. But the fight against electronic voting machines was fierce, and took a long time. We lost, by the way.

Stuffing paper ballots into a box or tapping the screen of an electronic voting machine are both very easy. This stuff has to be fixed at a higher level, like by making sure the folks running the precinct aren’t corrupt or by having a neutral observer present

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#109

Post by rickbutton »

hedora wrote: post #71
hintymad wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I'm advocating a civil discourse in which people evaluate the pros and cons of different approaches without resorting to racial attacks. I'm advocating that people should be encouraged to ask questions, like why does it take so long for the US to count ballots without getting into partisan bullshit.

You brought race into the discussion, not me. There's nothing in the SAFE act that can be considered partisan, unless you assume that one of the parties is against allowing people to vote. The Republicans in the senate blocked it for two reasons: - It is impossible to print legible ballots on recycled paper. (The recycled paper requirement in the bill could have been removed in reconciliation, even if this argument i…

hint: they aren't being honest

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#110

Post by spaceships »

hackernewds wrote: post #86
barbacoa wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mark Zuckerberg spend $400MM to get influence over state election offices in key swing states. Makes you wonder.

Proof for this claim?

Not a statement on any claims of influence but the amount seems about right. "The couple [Zuckerberg and Chan] awarded $400 million to nonprofits for election assistance"

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/08/943242106/how-private-money-f...

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