Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

681–690 of 1001 posts

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#681

Post by Spooky23 »

bko wrote: post #662
librish wrote: post #89

It's time we start legislating based on empirical evidence instead of lofty ideals. Yes, if everyone was responsible perhaps it would be OK for all of us to own firearms. But so many people are utterly irresponsible, and guns make that irresponsibility lethal. People should safely store their fire-arms, but they don't and guns get stolen and sold illegally, or used by their teenage child. People shouldn't point a gun…

> empirical evidence instead of lofty ideals The problem with a lot of anti-gun measures is that the proponents readily admit that they would not have stopped any particular shooter. For instance, people talk about background checks, but this shooter and many others did not have a history and were not known to police. They would have passes a background check. Often times the person acquiring the gun already broke a…

The school shooting club thing is an example of how regulation works.

Just as you don’t see soldiers on military bases walking around with guns on their hips for fun, there were strict rules around high school shooting ranges - kids didn’t take guns home and had strict protocols around handling, etc.

The big difference now is you have a fetishization of guns combined with a low intensity insurgency. If you ask a more prolific gun person about why they are collecting weapons, the answer in 1965 was likely to be about antique or other technical factors. In 1995 they were worried about Clinton taking the guns away, so buy before it’s too late. In 2015, many are talking about fighting the government.

Marginal personalities are attracted to the power of weapons and attention.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#682

Post by axiomsEnd »

umvi wrote: post #675
Hamuko wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not pointing the muzzle of a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy is basic gun safety. Are you required to know basic gun safety in order to obtain one?

No, for the same reason you don't need to have basic civility/racial sensitivity training to exercise free speech.

But you have to pass driving test before using a car...

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#683

Post by doctoroctogon »

BobbyJo wrote: post #679
doctoroctogon wrote: post #625

Question for the pro-gun folks: where is the limit on what a civilian needs to defend themselves? Assuming you agree civilians shouldn’t have nukes. How about fighter jets. What about tanks. What about bazookas. How do you make that call. If, for example, greater than 5 round magazines isn’t the limit, where is the limit and why?

I think a good test is the risk an accident poses to others. An accident with a nuke, tank or fight jet can easily kill 10's, 100's or millions. With guns, a bullet is a bullet for the most part (if we are talking about human fired calibers), an the risk any given undirected bullet poses is effectively the same. Larger magazines don't increase accident risk, while being automatic or explosive does. I.E. if you're a r…

That’s really interesting - thanks for the thorough and thoughtful response!

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#684

Post by brightball »

librish wrote: post #89

It's time we start legislating based on empirical evidence instead of lofty ideals. Yes, if everyone was responsible perhaps it would be OK for all of us to own firearms. But so many people are utterly irresponsible, and guns make that irresponsibility lethal. People should safely store their fire-arms, but they don't and guns get stolen and sold illegally, or used by their teenage child. People shouldn't point a gun…

Fwiw, pointing a gun at somebody is considered brandishing a firearm and is illegal. At least that's what I was told by an instructor years ago.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#685

Post by BobbyJo »

I think a good first step everyone can agree on to stop gun violence is: stop it's gamification.

Almost every mass shooting in the last decade was someone looking for media attention and high score. And yet, every shooting is followed by detailed biography and a tally of bodies.

Something as simple as a one month moratorium on information for anyone outside the community would probably work wonders, as the public eye will have moved on by then.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#686

Post by tanmay7270 »

BobbyJo wrote: post #669
shreyshnaccount wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their argument is gonna be that people will find other ways to kill. Maybe invest in a system that makes people less likely to murder an innocent croud? Wonder what could do that... Better education? Better mental health facilities? Lesser access to the easy people kill machine?

> easy people kill machine cars?

Cars are not intended to kill people, it's an unintended side effect of an otherwise useful machine without which it's pretty hard to imagine modern life.

Guns are exclusively designed to take lives. Would be useless without their ability to effectively kill things, and most humans outside of America don't think it's important for civilians to be armed.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#687

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin »

Hamuko wrote: post #450
sb057 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People should safely store their fire-arms, but they don't and guns get stolen and sold illegally, or used by their teenage child. This is extraordinarily rare. >People shouldn't point a gun at someone unless their life is in danger and they're prepared to take a life, but they do and people get shot by accident, or road rage turns deadly. Brandishing weapons is illegal in every state and not pointing the muzzle of…

> not pointing the muzzle of a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy is basic gun safety. Are you required to know basic gun safety in order to obtain one?

Are you required to know basic knife safety to buy a knife? Fire safety to buy a lighter?

The age gate means that society at one point thought that basic gun safety would be learned before a certain age or maturity would set in or something like that. Society is what has changed.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#688

Post by axiomsEnd »

bspammer wrote: post #575
DeathArrow wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before fire arms being invented people took other's lives with knives, swords or clubs. Or poison. Or bare hands. What makes you think that not owning a gun will make people less murderous?

Every other developed country on the planet not having this problem is a pretty big hint.

The problem is that USA is already full of unlicensed guns and very specific gun ownership culture. In countries with relatively easy access to guns and low number of similar (Czech Republic comes to mind), gun ownership and it's culture were build on diffrent foundation, so you can't just copy this solutions to USA.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#689

Post by hoseja »

testtaaac wrote: post #661
hoseja wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey how about tests to allow people to vote and have children. Sounds like a great idea.

What do you consider a test to vote? having never been incarcerated? lots of states already have that implemented.

Oh yea that's true, I forgot about this bit of US insanity.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#690

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin »

BobbyJo wrote: post #685

I think a good first step everyone can agree on to stop gun violence is: stop it's gamification. Almost every mass shooting in the last decade was someone looking for media attention and high score. And yet, every shooting is followed by detailed biography and a tally of bodies. Something as simple as a one month moratorium on information for anyone outside the community would probably work wonders, as the public eye…

In some countries, criminals faces are blurred when shown on TV. American media’s obsession with tragedy and its wider reach is culprit number one in my book.
Post reply on HN